Is poverty a moral failing?

[O_Kav]

You know, it's sad to think there are people today who think that the poor are poor because they don't want to work. Even today, with mechanization and all, poor people are the ones who work harder and the ones who get the most dangerous and physically demanding jobs. Every Society has its backbones based on the work these people do. Yet, they are humiliated, belittled and told themselves to not value what they do... It's depressing.

It's no surprise, though. Those who think being poor is a moral failing are not exclusive to our Era, really. They are the same types of people who tried to justify Child Labor during the Industrial Revolution. The same types of folks that didn't shed a single tear to the workers killed in the Haymarket Massacre. The same types that later, in the 20th Century, mocked the demand for better workplace conditions and could care less about the Women that died in the Triangle Factory Fire in New York.

And guess what ? These are the people still in power today. Even if we had brave activists that gave their lives for more workers rights, even a politician or two who tried to swim against the tide... Those who fought against the defamation of the poor were arrested, killed, ridiculed and had their legacy distorted. We are living for Two Centuries now, under this ruling principle that Progress should be achieved by holding the poor in leashes instead of being achieved by rewarding them with compassion and Humanity...

On the other hand, reading the great responses in this thread keeps my hope alive. One day perhaps people who have these ridiculous notions that the poor are "morally bad" will only exist in History Books.

 

[Nyotarules]

The Law required that landowners set aside 10% of their fields where the poor could come and
eat their fill. Couldn't take anything, but...

Wonder what happened to that one....hanging out with the shrimp and lobster, I bet.

Imagine turning up at Trump's mansion or even the mansion of these mega wealthy preachers and demanding access to the kitchen lol

 

[suarezguy]

I don't see how or where Carson said poverty was a moral failing or caused by immorality although he did think managing to rise above it was associated with better values (specifically his mother, shocking that he would have a particularly admiring view of her).
The controversial comment he made about poverty that I can find was not that it was a moral failing but that it was often in part perpetuated by bad/unfortunate but understandable attitudes, attitudes that people didn't willfully create on their own but that did hold them back.

Carson himself did grow up in poverty and from his experiences he probably did feel that some poor people did hold themselves, him or other poor people back (and he has been in part critical of himself) and aside from that he would acknowledge that rising above it is difficult but not that it's impossible or mostly just a matter of chance or that he doesn't particularly deserve his success.

 

[Tora Ziyal]

I doubt that Carson would acknowledge that he doesn't deserve all the credit for his success. I was at an event with him several years ago, right before he got into politics. Didn't talk to him myself, but was close enough to observe him interacting with others. Let's just say that Ben Carson's greatest admirer is Ben Carson

 

[fireproof78]

As the apostle Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament and who some of these same Christians use to justify their views on the role of women in the church and homosexuality - 'For the love of money is the root of all evil'
Now how many of them take note of that part of the Bible?

Usually it's misquoted "Money is the root of all evil."

Prosperity gospel should have died with the story of Job, but even Jesus was still teaching about it on at least two occasions.

 

[GabyBee]

 

[Jayson1]

I can speak on my own experience and let others decide. My dad is rich and owns his own business. You might even want to look up the company on Youtube or the internet. It's called J & J Soultions based out of Perry, Oklahoma. I know he has made several millions of dollars at least, especially when he invented a new soap stick for oil wells and has sold them to several companies and to people over in China.
Anyways my dad started from nothing, didn't go to college and worked hard and created his business, which almost went under in the 80's best of the oil bust back then. He used to work on wells and for awhile switched to doing things like taking government contracts to maintain a military base which I worked for him during one summer basically mowing lawns and picking up trash all over a military base.
Anyways he has done things to help me out before like getting me a truck but when I lost my job because of my mental problems and had to go on government disability he didn't seem to understand even though he has some problems with things like depression as well. Now he won't even talk to me. I tried calling him about 5 or 6 years ago and he never called back and hasn't tried to ever get hold of me in those years as well. I think rich people are capable of kindness but only if you agree with them and fit into whatever box they have created as acceptable human behavior. Their tolerance to anyone who is different is low and they see it as the reason they are poor.

Jason

 

[UncleRogi]

Those yellow peeps are nothing to mess with!!

 

[Jayson1]

Those yellow peeps are nothing to mess with!!

What exactly is a Fig? I understand what they were trying to say but that is bad spelling and that is coming from someone who does bad spelling ALOT!

Jason

 

[Stoo]

Maybe this is one where they should go to their Bible's, open them up, actually read it, then ask "what did Jesus say about this kind of stuff?"

This was the guy who said if you own two shirts, give one to someone else who needs it more than you do.

 

[Nyotarules]

I think rich people are capable of kindness but only if you agree with them and fit into whatever box they have created as acceptable human behavior. Their tolerance to anyone who is different is low and they see it as the reason they are poor.
Jason

I don't expect rich people to be automatically kind or compassionate, I don't expect it from poor people or people who are neither. However I do expect it from people, especially the wealthy, mega rich, well off people who profess to be followers of Jesus Christ, considering the Being they claim to follow or whose teachings they claim to follow was poorer than dirt and was homeless.

Luke 9:58 "Jesus replied, "Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head." NIV

And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. KJV (For those who believe KJV is 'holy talk')

 

[Nyotarules]

What exactly is a Fig? I understand what they were trying to say but that is bad spelling and that is coming from someone who does bad spelling ALOT!

Jason

Fig is a fruit

 

[UncleRogi]

What exactly is a Fig? I understand what they were trying to say but that is bad spelling and that is coming from someone who does bad spelling ALOT!

Jason

It means the Westboro Baptist Church has had a literacy problem all this time!

 

[Australis]

What exactly is a Fig? I understand what they were trying to say but that is bad spelling and that is coming from someone who does bad spelling ALOT!

Jason

Fig, as someone above said, is a fruit. They re made into bisuits, in the US are called fig newtons, which are on the plate and have the cardboard flames licking at them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtons_(cookie)

And in one of the Gospels, Jesus cursed a fig tree for not having fruit. That's how I take it, YMMV.

 

[T'Bonz]

I started off life poor (as in the projects). Some of my family is still poor, although most were able to get to working class, at least.

The reasons for being poor are varied and one size doesn't fit all. You can be born into poverty. You can fall into it via job loss or divorce. Some end up poor by having children too young (or even too often). Some don't get the education needed to get a good job and end up with shit jobs and become poor.

It's not a moral failure. At best, it's bad luck. At worst, it's bad decisions. But honestly - even those who made or make bad decisions need practical help and support, not judgment or scorn.

It's even harder to get out of poverty these days. When I was young, the way out was going into the armed forces. Several of my cousins lifted themselves out of poverty this way and it was safe as at the time, we weren't at war. It's more risky to go this route these days.

As for education - unless it's 100% funded (including fees and incidentals and subsidized day care, if applicable), for someone who is poor, it's often a no-can-do. If you can't afford $100 for something that is needed (transportation, books, whatever), it might as well be $100000 needed. It's that far out-of-reach if you're poor. I had two cousins face a gap in what they got (which was generous, but not enough) and what was needed. One went into the service instead.

 

[Kor]

I grew up middle-middle class (sometimes it felt like lower-middle class), and I probably never would have gone to college if I hadn't started out with a couple years of free tuition. It's hard to imagine how hard it is for those below the poverty threshold. For textbooks alone, $100-$300 for each class, times three classes per quarter or five classes per semester? Outrageous!

Kor

 

[publiusr]

Gulags are all over. In the East folks were warehoused behind barbed wire. In the west--its called ruin porn as the well-to-do moved farther and farther out from the city center--only coming back to turn it into a playhouse. Any time you have movements of people--it can be disruptive. Reagan wanted to water down the borders--where Chavez worried that employers would recruit undocumented immigrants to break strikes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/31/cesar-chavez-illegal-immigration_n_5065654.html

Odd times:
http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/29/f...-democrats-opposed-refugees-and-even-orphans/

The problem--as I see it--is a lack of boundaries. Wages have fallen due to libertarian attempts to water down boundaries of all types.

We don't like boundaries as a species. Some seem really harsh. When labor unions try to keep scabs out--it looks boorish.

So It made Reagan look like the good guy with, say, the blanket amnesty program. He figured democrats had their minority--so the GOP had to have their'n. That and a lot of folks south of the border were very socially conservative--perhaps explaining why Proposition 8 passed in California of all places.

You have to have living wage laws. You have to have unions--and yes--you have to have borders.

I'f I'm a multinational corporation--I don't want you to have any of these things. I want a libertarian paradise where I can float over all boundaries--and come and go as I please.

Boundaries matter.

Ever sense the so-called Reagan revolution--we've been knocking down boundaries right and left.

Before reagan--lots of folks were like my Dad. He was able to pay for his child and his spouse with one paycheck. Six-weeks paid vacation. He was UTU.

Now--folks work two or even three jobs and are still poor.

So you have to ask yourself this. Were we better off after the Reagan revolution? Or before.?

 

[urbandefault]

A college degree doesn't guarantee financial success.

There are plenty of blue collar jobs out there paying $100K + that aren't filled, because there aren't enough skilled workers to take them. Mike Rowe preaches this all the time. He established a foundation providing trade school scholarships to people who are willing to work hard. Some who might apply are put off by the requirements. Others aren't. Guess who gets the money?

I'm not saying that poverty is a choice, but it's often a series of choices influenced by circumstances or conditioning.

 

[UncleRogi]

So, it seems you can do or be anything in America.

Except be poor. Then all get to spit on you.

Make America great again! Send the poor people to hell, or maybe Greece or Spain. It
looks bad.

 

[at Quark's]

You know, it's sad to think there are people today who think that the poor are poor because they don't want to work.

Well, to be honest such people do exist. I have an acquintance who has been willing to live on welfare level for his entire life, because working doesn't appeal to him, and he frankly admits as much. ('why work if I would barely have more to spend with the jobs open to me than I can get from welfare?')

But such persons are the exception. Most 'poor' people I know are willing to work, and work hard, but just had fewer opportunities in life, for whatever reason.