It is not.
Spoilers Is Picard season 2 a failure?
- Thread starter Ometiklan
- Start date
Ah, so popularity is your means of measuring how good or bad a show is...?
I think you can take 10 seconds from either DSC or PIC, and you have something you will NEVER ever see in Star Wars, and vice versa.
I personally like stories that involve a lot of emotion and character dynamics, I therefor am much more drawn towards DSC/PIC than MANDO or BOBA.
But in the end, it's all subjective, a matter of taste. There are many people that genuinely feel 'Hot Shots Part Deux' is a much better made film than Ingmar Bergman's Wild Strawberries. And likewise, there are many people who think Star Wars is better than Star Trek.
Is it just me or is this bizarre frigging meme that DISCO and PIC are not popular one that comes from nowhere? They're literally the only things other than Big Brother and The Good Fight that people watch on this streaming channel.
There's a reason they keep greenlighting new show after new show.
It's not because they're failures. It's because people watch them.
There's a reason they keep greenlighting new show after new show.
It's not because they're failures. It's because people watch them.
It comes from people who are obsessed with hating the shows and Alex Kurtzman wanting them to be failures.
That's the thing I hate about modern fandom: the idea things can be objectively bad and everyone agrees. You can't be an outlier who has "better" (or just different) taste than other people. Now people WANT to be part of the crowd and assume everyone has the same opinions.
I liked it when I was an edgy outsider who had his own opinions different from others.
UNTRUE! Our family also watches Survivor reruns.
Nah, I’d rather expend my energy doing something I enjoy. Like watching Picard.
Ultimately, it doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. If others find joy in debating the minutiae, then by all means have at it. For me personally, there’s no fun in that.
UNTRUE! Our family also watches Survivor reruns.
We love The Amazing Race here. Also really liked 1883. Mayor of Kingstown, Evil, and Halo are on my list of things to check out and I personally know others who watch those shows on Paramount. I also use it for live TV/local news on occasion and I've seen some of the non Trek movies available. My son loves all the Nickelodeon stuff. I watch new and old Trek on there. It's probably one of our most used streaming services.
Ugh. I'm starting to have the very sinking feeling that S2 is going to ass-drag it's smelly hind-end through the doorway and onto the carpet of S3. 
Something to bear in mind is that between S1 and S2, production started on a television adaptation of Chabon's novel The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay. Waldman is Chabon's wife, and it's my understanding that both of them are working on Kavalier -- that probably pulled them both away from Picard after he turned in his early scripts. Obviously they still used enough of his work that he got a "story by" credit on episode 2, and he's still listed as an executive producer.
Gosh, that happened in March 2020 that might have impacted the writing and production of the entire season.
1) The idea that other shows were willing to risk endangering the health of their cast members is not a good reason to hold the "silo'ed cast" structure against Picard. Your entertainment is not as important as cast members' health. Particularly since its star is an 81-year-old man.
2) I promise you, other shows silo'ed off their cast members and used other mitigation strategies like PIC did too.
Filming began in February 2021, when vaccines had not yet been widely distributed. In fact, COVID vaccines were not truly widely distributed until the spring -- and of course vaccines take multiple weeks after multiple dosages to become fully effective. With a television show you're not just talking about the rich and famous cast members who might be able to get it early on -- you're talking about a crew of over a hundred people who need to be vaccinated. And add on top of that the fact that in the winter of 2020-2021 it was yet unknown how effective the vaccine might be against new variants of COVID that might yet develop, meaning that mitigation strategies would still need to be in place until more data was developed on a national level -- something that wouldn't really become clear until the summer. (Hell, they didn't even start recommending boosters until the late summer/early fall.) And add on top of that, again, the fact that the star of Star Trek: Picard is a man in his 80s who would naturally be more vulnerable to the virus even with vaccines.
So, no, the logistics of getting everyone vaccinated before production of PIC S2 started just do not work out, and the idea that they could just disregard mitigation strategies once everyone was vaccinated also just does not work out.
Gosh, that happened in March 2020 that might have impacted the writing and production of the entire season.
I meant more like what changed. Did they change their original story outline around to accommodate the pandemic ? I'm assuming yes due to how everyone was in pairs, but I like behind the scenes stuff so I am genuinely curious to know what changed and how the pandemic impacted the scripts and production. Also, some of that is more of an individual script type thing. I think a lot of the criticisms have been due to the structure of the story, but yea it's possible they had to rewrite a lot of the mid season episodes and scrap what they had planned due to the pandemic. I also saw an interview from DeLancie where he mentioned multiple season 2 shutdowns, at least partial ones, so I'm sure all this had an impact. Shutdowns cost time and money, and they may have had to cut stuff as a result.
Of course other shows used mitigation strategies, but the ones I've seen were not so obvious about it where you can tell right away that's what was happening on screen or where it seemed to affect the quality of the story. Just my opinion. Of course I agree the health of the cast members should come first so if they felt this was the best way to protect the cast then that's fine. I'll also admit it's possible I'm being unfairly critical to some aspects since it's part of a franchise I love and look forward to so much.
I stand corrected on my statement about vaccines and filming. You raise great points.
I totally get loving ST and being frustrated when it can't quite reach the levels of perfection we have in our heads. But that kind of extra scrutiny I give to ST often leads me to perceive things in it that I might not notice in other shows. I suspect it may be that you're just noticing the silo'ed cast members on PIC more than other shows as a result of the writers/cast being open about the intentional siloing and of the extra scrutiny we all tend to give the show as Trekkies. I realized in retrospect that there was a lot of cast siloing on DIS this past season, for instance -- but because the writers/cast didn't draw attention to it, and because the show used a lot of standing sets rather than overtly dividing the cast up into different geographic regions of a city in exterior shots, I didn't notice it at first.
I feel a lot of people just want it to be exactly like TNG and are annoyed it did its own thing and continues to do its own thing.
I think you are spot on.
I also don't participate in discussion forums of other shows so when we're here discussing things and sort of compiling our thoughts things also come up for the sake of discussion. If I just watched the episodes and moved on like with other shows I would not necessarily think about all these issues. When I sit down, ponder the episode, write something, notice something else, respond to comments, it may seem like "cracks" are showing in these episodes but in reality all shows have them. Bottom line is if I didn't greatly enjoy the show I wouldn't be staying up until 1 AM to like it and commenting about it on a message board. In one thread on here I listed a couple of things I didn't like about the season, but then said I liked everything else. The good far outweighs the bad here for me.
Quite possibly. Plenty of legit criticism to apply though.
The Star Trek box?
I was thinking, despite my issues with pacing and sledghammer plot points, there are some absolutely captivating single scenes scattered throughout the season.
My favourite remains when we first see Renee Picard and hear Q's voice, and swirl around to then witness his attempt to influence her emotions. (I still think he could have been talking about himself, too.) She laughs when he snaps his fingers, as if the universe, or all universes, are laughing at Q.
My favourite remains when we first see Renee Picard and hear Q's voice, and swirl around to then witness his attempt to influence her emotions. (I still think he could have been talking about himself, too.) She laughs when he snaps his fingers, as if the universe, or all universes, are laughing at Q.
Nah. What a lot of people want is a healthy balance between characters and story.
Go rewatch the final nine episodes of DS9, and think of it as a miniseries. Then come back and tell me the same complaints about this Picard season apply. I guarantee you that they don't.
So Picard is unhealthy?
You know what I mean. Maybe I should have just said 'balance'? Whatever.
There are legitimate grievances about the plot, pacing, dialogue, etc. But Star Trek has rarely been Shakespeare, so I don't take them to heart. But I retain disappointment knowing the heights many other writers for Trek have accomplished. Hard not to compare. It is a franchise after all. Next week, I'll have seen 831 episodes and 13 movies...
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