Correction. ANYONE singing.
Row row row your boat....
First Contact gets a pass because it's singing didn't involve the crew.
Is Nemesis unfairly criticized?
- Thread starter Shinzon4u
- Start date
Row row row your boat....
First Contact gets a pass because it's singing didn't involve the crew.
So that's why FC is the best of the four.
I loved it, but tbh i just seem to love everything people hate :\
I like episodes people say are bad i just seem to like almost everything, just that i've not really watched TOS yet and i've only seen most of the TOS movies like once or twice but the 4th one.
I like episodes people say are bad i just seem to like almost everything, just that i've not really watched TOS yet and i've only seen most of the TOS movies like once or twice but the 4th one.
The movie is two hours of the writers desperately trying to convince the audience that Shinzon is Picard's clone, even though there isn't a single thing about him that's remotely like Picard. What's the point of making him Picard's clone when he might as well have been just an angry Romulan kid who somehow got a super-battleship with a super-weapon?
But that's not actually the main flaw of the movie. No, the main flaw is Shinzon's and the Romulans' 'plan.' When you actually analyze it, nothing about it makes sense.
1. How did Shinzon know that the Enterprise would be anywhere near the Kolarin system to be able to pick up B-4's positronic signal?
2. So Shinzon finds a Soong-type android, is able to reprogram it (how, the writers never bothered to explain), disassembles it, and buries the pieces all over a planet with a hostile alien race. First, he needs Picard's blood to survive, and he needs it now. Why would he make it so difficult and time-consuming for Picard to find B-4, not to mention putting him in unnecessary danger from the natives? Picard could have been killed, and then where would Shinzon be? Plus, how did Shinzon know that Picard would reassemble B-4 once he found him? An intact B-4 was necessary to Shinzon's plan, but if Picard just decided to reassemble him after the mission to Romulus, then B-4 would be useless!
3. How did Shinzon know that Janeway would send the Enterprise? She states that they were the closest ship, but she doesn't say that Shinzon asked for the Enterprise specifically. What if Janeway simply decided to send another ship for whatever reason?
4. Why did Shinzon make the Enterprise wait 17 hours once they were at Romulus? The guy needs Picard's blood ASAP, or he'll die. What's the holdup, Shinzon?
5. The Romulan faction helping Shinzon seems to be nothing more than a bunch of backstabbing, flip-flopping jerks. First, they seem to want to attack Earth for no particular reason, and they seem to think that Shinzon can help them, so they ally with him. But why would Shinzon care about attacking Earth? Earth isn't his enemy, the Romulans are. And now he's the Praetor, so why is he still helping them? The Romulans are bitching and complaining that Shinzon is doing nothing. Well, duh. He doesn't need you anymore. But for some reason he still ends up giving them what they want, with some paper-thin excuse that he wants to conquer the galaxy or some similar horseshit. Then for some other unexplained reason, the Romulans have a change of heart, think that Shinzon destroying Earth is a bad idea (but it was their idea to begin with!), and ally with Picard, even though Shinzon is finally doing what they wanted. I wonder if anyone told Picard later what the Romulans were really up to...?
6. Shinzon states that everything he's done, he's done for his Reman 'brothers' who he helped free. But it's clear that he's only doing things for himself, and the Remans are just his expendable foot soldiers. So how is this any different than how they were treated by the Romulans? Why didn't the Viceroy realize this and kick Shinzon's ass? How are any of Shinzon's actions helping the Remans?
7. How did Shinzon get the info about Starfleet's ship locations by having B-4 access only declassified files? Again, the writers never bothered to explain. It also seems like this was the sole reason B-4 was in the movie. But what does it matter where Starfleet's ships are? His cloak is perfect; he can use the Scimitar to fly directly to Earth and right past any ships in his way. So basically, B-4 exists simply to give Spiner a way to come back in a future movie if he wanted to.
8. In conclusion: Once Shinzon became Praetor, why didn't he a) immediately contact the Federation and ask for Picard to come to Romulus ASAP, b) explain to Picard that he's dying and needs a blood transfusion from him, and c) tell the Romulans to fuck off? Picard would have undoubtedly helped Shinzon, and I'm sure there would have been a way to save him without needing to take Picard's life. Instead, Shinzon acts like the biggest moron in the galaxy and ends up getting killed because of it.
But that's not actually the main flaw of the movie. No, the main flaw is Shinzon's and the Romulans' 'plan.' When you actually analyze it, nothing about it makes sense.
1. How did Shinzon know that the Enterprise would be anywhere near the Kolarin system to be able to pick up B-4's positronic signal?
2. So Shinzon finds a Soong-type android, is able to reprogram it (how, the writers never bothered to explain), disassembles it, and buries the pieces all over a planet with a hostile alien race. First, he needs Picard's blood to survive, and he needs it now. Why would he make it so difficult and time-consuming for Picard to find B-4, not to mention putting him in unnecessary danger from the natives? Picard could have been killed, and then where would Shinzon be? Plus, how did Shinzon know that Picard would reassemble B-4 once he found him? An intact B-4 was necessary to Shinzon's plan, but if Picard just decided to reassemble him after the mission to Romulus, then B-4 would be useless!
3. How did Shinzon know that Janeway would send the Enterprise? She states that they were the closest ship, but she doesn't say that Shinzon asked for the Enterprise specifically. What if Janeway simply decided to send another ship for whatever reason?
4. Why did Shinzon make the Enterprise wait 17 hours once they were at Romulus? The guy needs Picard's blood ASAP, or he'll die. What's the holdup, Shinzon?
5. The Romulan faction helping Shinzon seems to be nothing more than a bunch of backstabbing, flip-flopping jerks. First, they seem to want to attack Earth for no particular reason, and they seem to think that Shinzon can help them, so they ally with him. But why would Shinzon care about attacking Earth? Earth isn't his enemy, the Romulans are. And now he's the Praetor, so why is he still helping them? The Romulans are bitching and complaining that Shinzon is doing nothing. Well, duh. He doesn't need you anymore. But for some reason he still ends up giving them what they want, with some paper-thin excuse that he wants to conquer the galaxy or some similar horseshit. Then for some other unexplained reason, the Romulans have a change of heart, think that Shinzon destroying Earth is a bad idea (but it was their idea to begin with!), and ally with Picard, even though Shinzon is finally doing what they wanted. I wonder if anyone told Picard later what the Romulans were really up to...?
6. Shinzon states that everything he's done, he's done for his Reman 'brothers' who he helped free. But it's clear that he's only doing things for himself, and the Remans are just his expendable foot soldiers. So how is this any different than how they were treated by the Romulans? Why didn't the Viceroy realize this and kick Shinzon's ass? How are any of Shinzon's actions helping the Remans?
7. How did Shinzon get the info about Starfleet's ship locations by having B-4 access only declassified files? Again, the writers never bothered to explain. It also seems like this was the sole reason B-4 was in the movie. But what does it matter where Starfleet's ships are? His cloak is perfect; he can use the Scimitar to fly directly to Earth and right past any ships in his way. So basically, B-4 exists simply to give Spiner a way to come back in a future movie if he wanted to.
8. In conclusion: Once Shinzon became Praetor, why didn't he a) immediately contact the Federation and ask for Picard to come to Romulus ASAP, b) explain to Picard that he's dying and needs a blood transfusion from him, and c) tell the Romulans to fuck off? Picard would have undoubtedly helped Shinzon, and I'm sure there would have been a way to save him without needing to take Picard's life. Instead, Shinzon acts like the biggest moron in the galaxy and ends up getting killed because of it.
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Unfairly criticized? Perhaps. It's certainly a flawed movie in many ways, but so, IMO, are the rest of the Treks. NEM falls somewhere in the middle of my personal ranking.
My favorite by far is FC, my least favorite is STID followed by TWOK. In that order, because I think that TWOK has the better script. Khan is simply a worthless piece of crap in both versions, I detest him. I simply hated Spock's death, Data's demise is nothing in comparison, even if I didn't much like that either. TSFS is a so-so follow-up, I didn't find the movie particularly memorable but I did like getting Spock back. INS is my least favorite TNG movie. I just think that the TNG cast works better in the feature film format than the TOS cast does. My favorite TOS movie is TMP, and my favorite Kelvin movie is STB. I just wish that they had made a feature film out of Yesterday's Enterprise...
My favorite by far is FC, my least favorite is STID followed by TWOK. In that order, because I think that TWOK has the better script. Khan is simply a worthless piece of crap in both versions, I detest him. I simply hated Spock's death, Data's demise is nothing in comparison, even if I didn't much like that either. TSFS is a so-so follow-up, I didn't find the movie particularly memorable but I did like getting Spock back. INS is my least favorite TNG movie. I just think that the TNG cast works better in the feature film format than the TOS cast does. My favorite TOS movie is TMP, and my favorite Kelvin movie is STB. I just wish that they had made a feature film out of Yesterday's Enterprise...
I had to stop reading this last night...becuase...as much as my mind knows all of this (and has for years), I find that I can sort of leave it buried and just enjoy the ride a little bit. But, if I read this, it will be burned into the front of my consciousness!
Don’t mind me. I just like to overly nitpick shitty movies. Don’t even get me started on Prometheus
Haha I felt exactly the same when I read your post destroying TUC on the current thread here
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Why not? How about the simple notion that this was TNG's final outing and it did not play to the TNG's strengths with either it's story or character. When actual character moments are the subject of deletion instead of action scenes that are utterly pointless to the story, you end up with a hollow piece of a film that may have fun action sequences, but the elements that make any story work were not a priority.
Matter of taste. I find 70% of TNG to be dull, bloated, and generally uninteresting. So, the fact that Nemesis was different than the standard formulaic jaunt with Picard and crew was a plus for me.
From my POV, it was a fair amount better than GEN and infinitely superior to INS.
I thought Generations was quite good and I loved the concept of the Nexus ribbon!
JB
JB
During Nemesis's production, I'm not quite sure TPTB thought it would be the TNG crew's last film. Rather, I think they were planning on having at least one more if not two, since what would be the point of having a way for Spiner to return for future films?
But either way, that didn't happen.
Doing something different should come with care. When James Cameron made ALIENS, the shift in genres from the original's 'horror house' feel to ALIENS' 'rollar coaster ride' felt natural because it didn't make changes at the expense of what made the alien work in the original. Nemesis doesn't compliment anything in TNG because it's being different just for the sake of it, and most of what's different is poorly realized (We openly shoot and kill pre-warp aliens now when we invade their terriroty?), doesn't compliment what's come before it (Picard never lost his original heart?) and resorts to recycling plot points that other Trek movies have done way better.
The changes in Nemesis should not have come at the expense of the good stories that TNG told. If your film tries to sell the message that the events in one's life really does shape the kind of person you are, Picard's artificial heart would have been a perfect fit. Why ignore, or as is most likely the case for Nemesis, retcon it out as though it never happened just to give an uninspired 'Your _____ are the same as mine' speech that doesn't even work anyways?
To be honest, all of Star Trek is unfairly criticized, because fans seem to think they know how to make the perfect Star Trek movie. Same thing goes for Star Wars. It's very hard to do it right, because it's never the movie the fans thought it would be in their heads. So, yeah....
With Star Wars though, if Darth Vader ain't in it, is it really Star Wars? I think not! 
JB
JB
While I understand your sentiment, for me Nemesis's failure isn't so much a matter of "I could write it better," but more that the whole film feels like both an indulgence for Stewart and Spiner, and also a script of first-draft quality. I think that if S&S were reigned in and more actual thought went into the story and the characters, Nemesis would have been a better movie. Not a fantastic movie, mind you, but better than what we actually got.
Oh yes, I certainly agree that Nemesis is flawed. It could have been much more than it was in the end.
I agree
Insurrection was even more indulging of Stewart and Spicer, and had an even more shitty script. At least Nemesis TRIED for something. Insurrection was like "wheee let's just make a movie or something guys!!!"
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