Not only that, but it was embarrassing! They happen to use a buggy for the first time ever in Trek, and guess what the bad guys are driving? ... DUNE BUGGIES!!! WHAT A COINCIDENCE!!!
Is Nemesis unfairly criticized?
- Thread starter Shinzon4u
- Start date
I don't so much mind the non-plot-advancement of the Mad Max scene as much as the "Pre-warp society" ... "Prime Directive? What Prime Directive?" It's like the movie Picard is not the same as the intellectual TV Picard.
Maybe not, but the previous movies all suffer with similar problems when it comes to plot holes, cheap sets and villain motivations etc to varying degrees.
Don't get me wrong I'm not remotely saying that nemesis is the best trek movie by any stretch, it simply isn't, but most of the other movies, when scrutinised to the same standards fall down in some way. The dune buggy scene is no less ridiculous than the gilbert o sullivan scene in insurrection, to say nothing of some of the action scenes in the reboot movies.
To me the whole dune buggy, bits and pieces of B4 being found sequence is a bit silly but as I'm viewing it tonight with some sentimentality I'm just ignoring it. Don't remind me about the Prime Directive stuff - so many times Picard saying a society is better off dead than letting someone break the Prime Directive to save them - I'll ignore that too.
The battle scenes are still pretty exciting - I've got to give the film credit there.
However what I cannot forgive is my children popping in to say goodnight and giving me a hard time, saying "Is that the Poo Emoji, Is that Mr Poop?"
The battle scenes are still pretty exciting - I've got to give the film credit there.
However what I cannot forgive is my children popping in to say goodnight and giving me a hard time, saying "Is that the Poo Emoji, Is that Mr Poop?"
That's a fairly disingenuous way to describe it. If this film's problems are all so equal to every other Star Trek movie's problems, why did this one tank so hard? How come Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan is considered the best Star Trek movie that saved the franchise while Nemesis is considered one of the worst entrees that DID kill the franchise?
I don't know what you're looking for when it comes to a Star Trek movie, but a lot of movie goers and Trekkies are willing to look beyond those face value faults so long as there is something else there that is good. I can tell you that there is a lot more good in The Wrath of Khan than there is in Nemesis. Just compare Kirk's journey to Picard's journey. For Kirk, he's dealing with the boring life of an Admiral's rank, the thought of being passed his prime and having to deal with a past he chose to let go. All of these elements are finely tuned into the film's story and come to a satisfactory conclusion by the end of the film. What's Picard's journey in Nemesis? Some of his crew are moving on and... he seems fine with it. Data gets destroyed and... we get a bland wake. Killing his clone phases him so much that he actually cannot bring himself to try and stop the Scimitar from firing it's weapon to save his own crew. This is such an "out of nowhere" turn for his character that had absolutely no build up.
Like any film you generally enjoy, it's easy to overlook, forgive, or try to rationalise it's faults. The dune buggy scene and B4 discovery are dumb and contrived respectively, personally I find the fact that they could have just turned the bloody lights up when they were being boarded, and the crappy fight that Riker had less forgivable.
Objectively, it's a poor film in parts, but the opening scene, wedding, end battle, solid FX and generally adult tone outweigh it's problems for me. I realise I'm in a minority though.
Is it unfairly criticised? Yes, I think it is, to a degree, the things it's pulled up on are generally very valid criticisms, but I don't think it's anything like the horror show it's made out to be.
Objectively, it's a poor film in parts, but the opening scene, wedding, end battle, solid FX and generally adult tone outweigh it's problems for me. I realise I'm in a minority though.
Is it unfairly criticised? Yes, I think it is, to a degree, the things it's pulled up on are generally very valid criticisms, but I don't think it's anything like the horror show it's made out to be.
I sometimes think people are unfair of Nemesis then I decide I should re-watch it and my opinion changes
A
Amaris
Guest
I did a rewatch of it about a month ago, and there was a lot of sighing and squinting from my side of the TV. If other folks like it, great, I'd never tell you that you couldn't, nor would I berate anyone for loving the film. For me, though, it just doesn't work.
My one big reason is: Data dies! Yes...I know Brent Spiner wanted it like this..because he thought he´d aged out of the role...blah..blah...But come on! Data looking older then before could have been explained away in a few lines of dialog about Data doing some technobubble to his face to look older for...well...reasons...
Is that when Data leads the crew in a rendition of "Alone Again, Naturally"?
I've been more sympathetic to it in recent years. I've given it a few watches and enjoyed it more than I did originally. I think I'm looking for things to like rather than huffing and sighing at the things I don't. Some very, very dumb things happen in this movie though.
They already did that back on TNG... that episode where they meet the android copy of Data's 'monther' that Soong built after she died. Geordi offhandedly comments that she has an ageing subroutine "just like Data's".
There were some things I liked about it especially the Romulans / Remans being a significant plot point (big Rommie fan) and the space battle at the end are highlights for me. The buggy scenes, how they found B4, the "mind rape" scene with Deanna Troi and the way they decided to sacrifice Data are my biggest gripes with the film.
Nemesis was a missed opportunity. Finally a chance to make the romulans interesting and they do that by making a human clone the antagonist. While its awesome that young Tom Hardy is in a ST movie, it was brutally boring in most respects. The wedding of Riker and Troi was nice but like... thats pretty much it in terms of crew development. Is Crusher in this movie really at all? It was a sad way for the TNG cast to go out. Also the ENT E was such a gorgeous ship and they trash it after like 2 movies... whattabummer. I love First Contact and Insurrection so much, they're a lot of fun. But Nemesis and Generations suffer from a lack of focus and set pieces that surpass the circumstances that would earn them, if you kill a character... Data, Kirk... its got to be for an epic purpose. Thats why Spocks death is Khan feels so real and intense.
I think the producers thought it was about time that the Romulans appeared as the baddies in one of the films! Thing I don't get is why no one has recognized the Romulan Praetor as Jim Robinson From Neighbours?
JB
JB
I always recognised him. He's not even changed that much.
Which I believe could have been great given how under utulised the Romulan's always were however I don't consider the Romulan's are the bad dudes that falls to the vampiric under class and a Picard clone flying around in a super ship which it's never clear how it was actually constructed.
And the Reman viceroy is the former head of SAMCROW
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