Is kirks womanizing incredibly unproffessional?

[maryh]

Well, that certainly was non-responsive. I guess I could answer back "and you just made an invalid and grossly oversimplified generalizations," but that's beginning to get a little old.

None of us would argue the fact that men and women are physically different. Our bodies and brains are different. Our hormones, which directly influence our behaviors and attitudes, are different. Yet in our feminized society where facts don't count, it's argued that there are no psychological differences.

You are confusing behavior with values. Psychological differences between the genders could affect behavior, not values. Everything you have listed are valued by both genders.

If the genders have tendencies to behave differently, you cannot assume it is due to differences in their values.

 

[Nerys Myk]

OK, let's not cross over into getting personal. It's a holiday weekend and I don't feel like firing up the warning page.

Come on. Everyone loves a good holiday Barbeque!

 

[Zameaze]

Damn. I had a moderately witty comment all ready to post in this thread, but reading Zameaze's idiotic ramblings made me forget what it was.

Ah, this would be an example of the of the type of comment that passes for thinking in a society that values facts less and less. When a person ruled by emotion does not like the facts but cannot argue with them, that person always has the old tried and true tool of the non thinker--the ad hominem, where a personal attack substitutes abusive remarks for evidence. This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because the attack is directed at the person making the claim and not the claim itself, but the truth value of a claim is independent of the person making the claim.

 

[Zameaze]

Well, that certainly was non-responsive. I guess I could answer back "and you just made an invalid and grossly oversimplified generalizations," but that's beginning to get a little old.

None of us would argue the fact that men and women are physically different. Our bodies and brains are different. Our hormones, which directly influence our behaviors and attitudes, are different. Yet in our feminized society where facts don't count, it's argued that there are no psychological differences.

You are confusing behavior with values....

I'm sorry, I really don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying that you don't think values influence behavior?

 

[maryh]

Well, that certainly was non-responsive. I guess I could answer back "and you just made an invalid and grossly oversimplified generalizations," but that's beginning to get a little old.

None of us would argue the fact that men and women are physically different. Our bodies and brains are different. Our hormones, which directly influence our behaviors and attitudes, are different. Yet in our feminized society where facts don't count, it's argued that there are no psychological differences.

You are confusing behavior with values....

I'm sorry, I really don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying that you don't think values influence behavior?

Values fall under the study of ethics which is a branch of philosophy. Philosophy, like values, is not gender specific. Psychology is the study of behavior. Behavior can be influenced by gender. You are making the conclusion that the tendency for differing behaviors in the different genders is due to differing values. I am saying the values are the same, for both genders but behavior varies due to other factors.

 

[Zameaze]

You are confusing behavior with values....

I'm sorry, I really don't understand what you are saying. Are you saying that you don't think values influence behavior?

Values fall under the study of ethics which is a branch of philosophy. Philosophy, like values, is not gender specific. Psychology is the study of behavior. Behavior can be influenced by gender. You are making the conclusion that the tendency for differing behaviors in the different genders is due to differing values. I am saying the values are the same, for both genders but behavior varies due to other factors.

OK, but are you saying that the brain (different in men and women) does not affect which values a person chooses? And are you saying that the hormonal differences in men and women affect emotions and behaviors but not values? If so, it would seem that values become part of the human being without interacting with the human being.

 

[maryh]

"which values a person chooses?"

People decide upon differing values based upon many factors but they tend to have similar values. Everyone values truth, justice, mercy... chosing to act upon these depends on other things, and gender usually has little to do with it.

 

[Zameaze]

"which values a person chooses?"

....Everyone values truth, justice, mercy...

Genghis Khan, Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler?

....chosing to act upon these depends on other things, and gender usually has little to do with it.

Ah, good. Then we can get rid of gender studies, and we can chuck feminism since its values are the same as the values it disputes.

 

[maryh]

"which values a person chooses?"

....Everyone values truth, justice, mercy...

Genghis Khan, Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler?

....chosing to act upon these depends on other things, and gender usually has little to do with it.

Ah, good. Then we can get rid of gender studies, and we can chuck feminism since its values are the same as the values it disputes.

People chose not to follow values everyday!! Both men and women. Choice is a voluntary thing and is not caused by gender. I would place "gender studies" in the realm of psychology NOT philosophy.

 

[Jeyl]

Ok, as much of a pro-femenist that I am thanks to the recent Star Trek movie (That was a better Uhura? ), I cannot for the life of me label Kirk as a womanizer. He just didn't do anything.

I remember in "Charlie X" how when Charlie told Kirk that he slapped a lady's behind, Kirk didn't approve of that one bit. And what about "The Conscience of the King"? Kirk's attitude towards Lenore? Kirk didn't show any sign of his womanizing traits. And my favorite example is from "Elaan of Troyius" when Kirk not only has to deal with a beautiful woman who wears very revealing attire, he keeps his professional duty first and never tries to take advantage of her. In fact, the only time anything ever comes close to happening is when he's under her control!

I think fans and general viewers seem to confuse the term "ladies man" with "womanizer", because Kirk is certainly not a womanizer.

 

[Chrisisall]

I think fans and general viewers seem to confuse the term "ladies man" with "womanizer", because Kirk is certainly not a womanizer.

Precisely.

 

[Zameaze]

"which values a person chooses?"

....Everyone values truth, justice, mercy...

Genghis Khan, Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Adolf Hitler?

....chosing to act upon these depends on other things, and gender usually has little to do with it.

Ah, good. Then we can get rid of gender studies, and we can chuck feminism since its values are the same as the values it disputes.

....Choice is a voluntary thing and is not caused by gender.

Choice being a voluntary thing is an argument for another day. But not being influenced by gender brings us back to my earlier questions you didn't answer. If I may paraphrase myself: Are you saying that the difference in male and female brains and the hormonal differences in men and women which affect emotions and behaviors do not affect values? If so, it would seem that values become part of the human being without actually interacting with the human being--how does this occur?

Have a good Memorial Day if you get back here today. I'm being called to come gorge myself, and I shall comply.

 

[Chrisisall]

Are you saying that the difference in male and female brains and the hormonal differences in men and women which affect emotions and behaviors do not affect values?

I would say that, for the most part. When confronted with a definite Herbert, a male might WANT to hit him, and a female might WANT to summarily dismiss him, yet both might HAVE to deal diplomatically WITH him. Same societal values, different feelings.
But, I recognize that I may be over-simplifying here.

 

[Zameaze]

Are you saying that the difference in male and female brains and the hormonal differences in men and women which affect emotions and behaviors do not affect values?

I would say that, for the most part. When confronted with a definite Herbert, a male might WANT to hit him, and a female might WANT to summarily dismiss him, yet both might HAVE to deal diplomatically WITH him. Same societal values, different feelings.
But, I recognize that I may be over-simplifying here.

I completely agree with you, but here we are discussing societal values. When discussing personal values, though, men generally are more likely to endorse values such as freedom and accomplishment, whereas women generally endorse communal values, such as friendship and equality.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I call that horseshit. Which I guess is refreshingly masculine for my feminized worldview.

Not at all masculine. Just the opposite--not a fact in sight.

So your over-simplifications counts as "facts" now? In a binary world like SuperMario, maybe. In the real world? Not so much. Humans share (or better, acknowledge) the same values: biological and societal differences may account for a differences in behaviour, but outside basic reproductive processes, society has much more to do with the different attitudes than biology. Your position is no different that claiming that math is different for men and women.

But who knows, maybe you are of the opinion that math is a thing for men only and women should not busy their little minds on that. Women, know your place!

Ah, bitter. What a surprise.

Any bitterness that you see is simply in your own mind.

Maybe I should repost it:

OK, then, since you disagree that men and women have different values, we have to conclude that feminists are wrong to blame just men for anything, since women share the very same values.

Nossir, no bitter at all. I guess that is just another "fact" of yours.

I don't know the "feminists" you know, but the ones I've met have been much more interested in fighting against spousal abuses, sexual harassments, gender discriminations, glass ceilings and all the stuff women have to deal with daily in our supposedly-progressive world. Sure, things are going a bit better, but we have still a long way to go.

The only place where I see gender discrimination against men is in child custody battles: it is a very grave issues, and it should not be treated lightly. But outside that, I don't all those poor men oppressed by the "feminazi". Quite the opposite, actually.

 

[Chrisisall]

When discussing personal values, though, men generally are more likely to endorse values such as freedom and accomplishment, whereas women generally endorse communal values, such as friendship and equality.

Crap. I'm a woman trapped in a man's body.
Luckily for me, a lesbian woman.

 

[Zameaze]

I call that horseshit. Which I guess is refreshingly masculine for my feminized worldview.

Not at all masculine. Just the opposite--not a fact in sight.

Your position is no different that claiming that math is different for men and women.

From the December 2007 Scientific American
Sex, Math and Scientific Achievement
Why do men dominate the fields of science, engineering and mathematics?
By Diane F. Halpern, Camilla P. Benbow, David C. Geary, Ruben C. Gur, Janet Shibley Hyde and Morton Ann Gernsbacher

"Key Concepts
Closing the Sex Gap

Women, on average, have stronger verbal skills (especially in writing) and better memory for events, words, objects, faces and activities.

Men generally are better at mentally manipulating objects and at performing certain quantitative tasks that rely on visual representations.

Intervention studies are still in their infancy but suggest both sexes can benefit from targeted training to improve their skill set."

But who knows, maybe you are of the opinion that math is a thing for men only and women should not busy their little minds on that.

Wow, Don Quixote. If that's what you think then own up to it, but don't try to use me so that you have an excuse to say such nonsense.

.... the [feminists] I've met have been much more interested in fighting against spousal abuses, sexual harassments, gender discriminations, glass ceilings and all the stuff women have to deal with daily in our supposedly-progressive world.

Have you thought about what you are saying? You are agreeing with me. If men and women had the same personal values, then your feminists would have nothing to fight against.

 

[Chrisisall]

Women, on average, have stronger verbal skills (especially in writing) and better memory for events, words, objects, faces and activities.

Men generally are better at mentally manipulating objects and at performing certain quantitative tasks that rely on visual representations.

Crap. Now I'm bisexual. Or androgynous.
Whatever.

 

[Zameaze]

Women, on average, have stronger verbal skills (especially in writing) and better memory for events, words, objects, faces and activities.

Men generally are better at mentally manipulating objects and at performing certain quantitative tasks that rely on visual representations.

Crap. Now I'm bisexual. Or androgynous.

Don't feel bad about having a feminine side--when dealing with generalizations, there's always overlap.

 

[Chrisisall]

Don't feel bad about having a feminine side--when dealing with generalizations, there's always overlap.

Lack of recognized overlap is what's hurting our global society IMO.

Sorry, I had a serious moment there.