Is Kirk unintentionally insulting Spok STWOK?

[heavyneos]

During that beautiful eulogy seen where there about to launch Spok into the stars Kirk says “of all the souls I’ve encountered... this was the most.. Human” is this unintentionally insulting Spok, because in the series he repeatedly states that he is not human and one point states that he felt insulted by the implication of doctor McCoy.

I ask because I’ve recently rewatched the original series and the first five films and I don’t think Spok would have appreciated being called human

 

[Smellmet]

Doubtful, he was devastated, however in TUC, when Kirk says 'everybody's human' to Spock he replies with 'I find that remark... insulting' he just meant it as a term of endearment at the funeral scene

 

[2takesfrakes]

I suspect that this "Human" remark during the funeral also stemmed from Nick Meyer's own inability to relate to aliens as being alien. Saavik is a good case-in-point, how she's Vulcan in name, only. Yes, "they" insisted that Nick's script include Romulan references to her heritage, but these quickly hit the cutting room floor. He wanted no cover-up, or apology for the fact that aliens in STAR TREK are really supposed to be "us" ... in disguise. Later, in TUC, he turned that into a joke, but a lot of years went by too, by that point.

 

[martok2112]

I think that a Vulcan's aversion to being referred to as human could also very well be as differed as a human who might be considered Vulcan-like by other Vulcans.

Remember in "Unification" when Spock comments that Picard has a Vulcan-like quality of logic and dispassion? Were Picard to have heard that, he would probably have taken it as a compliment.

Now, McCoy on the other hand, in times where Spock or even Sarek might have admired the good doctor? He would probably have a conniption if he heard them refer to him in any way as Vulcan-like.

The thought had occurred to me as well in the past, per the OP's question? Did Kirk unintentionally insult Spock? Unintentionally, perhaps. But, Kirk was also placing Spock in a very high regard in that, were Spock truly, fully human, he would've represented the very best of humanity.

I have often wondered, were Spock to become remotely curious about his eulogy:

SPOCK and KIRK are reviewing the funeral proceedings of Spock on a video monitor in Kirk's quarters.

Kirk (on screen): We are gathered here, today, to pay final respects to our honored dead. And yet it should be noted that this death takes place in the sunrise of a new world....a world our beloved comrade gave his life to protect and nourish. Spock did not feel this sacrifice a vain or empty one, and we will not debate his profound wisdom at thesse proceedings.

Spock: (murmurring) That is wise.
Kirk simply grins. Spock will be Spock.

Kirk: (on screen) Of my friend, I can only say this:

Spock raises an eyebrow in curiosity.

Kirk: (on screen) Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels....his was the most.....human.

Spock's eyebrow lowers, and he simply turns to Kirk.

Spock: Jim?

Kirk: Yes, Spock?

Spock: You are not invited to my next funeral.

Kirk: (with an understanding grin) Live longer, and prosper more than I, my friend.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I always thought Spock would turn his nose up at the use of "human"

Then there's the use of Amazing Grace for a Vulcan...

 

[Timewalker]

I have often wondered, were Spock to become remotely curious about his eulogy:

SPOCK and KIRK are reviewing the funeral proceedings of Spock on a video monitor in Kirk's quarters.

Kirk (on screen): We are gathered here, today, to pay final respects to our honored dead. And yet it should be noted that this death takes place in the sunrise of a new world....a world our beloved comrade gave his life to protect and nourish. Spock did not feel this sacrifice a vain or empty one, and we will not debate his profound wisdom at thesse proceedings.

Spock: (murmurring) That is wise.
Kirk simply grins. Spock will be Spock.

Kirk: (on screen) Of my friend, I can only say this:

Spock raises an eyebrow in curiosity.

Kirk: (on screen) Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels....his was the most.....human.

Spock's eyebrow lowers, and he simply turns to Kirk.

Spock: Jim?

Kirk: Yes, Spock?

Spock: You are not invited to my next funeral.

Kirk: (with an understanding grin) Live longer, and prosper more than I, my friend.

Excellent!

I always thought Spock would turn his nose up at the use of "human"

Then there's the use of Amazing Grace for a Vulcan...

Would you have preferred that Scotty play the Vulcan lyre?

Scotty wanted to honor Spock. Many human funerals include at least one piece of music. Scotty had his bagpipes, and "Amazing Grace" is a powerful piece of music. I've seen most of the audience at a symphony reduced to tears by that piece being played under a single spotlight, by a lone bagpiper. It was one of the most beautiful musical performances I've ever witnessed.

This was absolutely appropriate for Spock's funeral, as it was held on a starship with a mostly human crew. No doubt Vulcan funerals are much different, but there wasn't anything wrong with how this was done.

 

[martok2112]

Thanks, Timewalker.

 

[cgervasi]

During that beautiful eulogy seen where there about to launch Spok into the stars Kirk says “of all the souls I’ve encountered... this was the most.. Human” is this unintentionally insulting Spok, because in the series he repeatedly states that he is not human and one point states that he felt insulted by the implication of doctor McCoy.

I ask because I’ve recently rewatched the original series and the first five films and I don’t think Spok would have appreciated being called human

My son's first reaction to this movie when they got the funeral scene was to ask whether Kirk contacts Spock's parents to ask if they were okay with the plans for the funeral and what to do with Spock's body. It probably occurred to him b/c my wife is an attorney focused on end-of-life issues. It turns out he was right. In the next movie Spock's father is upset with how they handled it.

 

[Vger23]

Of course Spock wouldn't be insulted. Spock has embraced the Vulcan way and is proud of his heritage as a Vulcan, but, by this time, he has accepted the human side of his heritage and what a unique being he is. This was largely the result of his experience with V'Ger. he is also accepting that there are many people in his life who are close to him (mother, Kirk, Bones) who are human.

Spock would understand Kirk's intent at that moment, and would appreciate it. He may raise an eyebrow in playful disapproval...but he would certainly not be insulted.

 

[sonak]

Kirk is a humanist, and is paying tribute to the best qualities that Humans can reach, such as selflessness, nobility, etc. and honoring Spock by saying that he possesses them in abundance.

When Kirk's voice breaks with emotion when he says "Human," it is such a great moment.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Of course Spock wouldn't be insulted. Spock has embraced the Vulcan way and is proud of his heritage as a Vulcan, but, by this time, he has accepted the human side of his heritage and what a unique being he is. This was largely the result of his experience with V'Ger. he is also accepting that there are many people in his life who are close to him (mother, Kirk, Bones) who are human.

Spock would understand Kirk's intent at that moment, and would appreciate it. He may raise an eyebrow in playful disapproval...but he would certainly not be insulted.

Exactly. Spock likes to play like he's insulted as part of the give and take/ good-natured ribbing between himself and Kirk and McCoy.

 

[fireproof78]

I always thought Spock would turn his nose up at the use of "human"

Then there's the use of Amazing Grace for a Vulcan...

Let's be fair-it's the only song on the bagpipes Scotty knew

In all seriousness, Spock would have taken it in the spirit it was given. Depending on the circumstances, he certainly could be insulted, but Kirk's emotions of the moment, as well as their long history together, there would be an understanding between the two of Kirk's intention.

By TUC Spock is back to his old self and more than willing to tease his shipmates about their "humanness." Because, technically, he is still half-human.

 

[Ithekro]

Considering that Kirk's voice breaks just before saying "human" I think Spock would understand the meaning of Kirks words. I think Saavik did even though she hadn't be around them all that long. At least Captain Spock of the Enterprise would have understood.

 

[Smellmet]

Kirk is a humanist, and is paying tribute to the best qualities that Humans can reach, such as selflessness, nobility, etc. and honoring Spock by saying that he possesses them in abundance.

When Kirk's voice breaks with emotion when he says "Human," it is such a great moment.

Nailed it. This was what I was trying to say in my previous post.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

I believe what Kirk was trying to say that despite his choice to follow the Vulcan way that Spock, as a person, exemplified the traits that humanity claims to strive for: peace, honor, generosity, acceptance, caring for others, trustworthiness, selflessness and even love among others....Better than anyone, from any race, that he had ever known.

And Shatner was magnificent in that scene BTW.

 

[eyeresist]

Not as insulting as repeatedly calling him "Spok".

 

[Elder Knight]

I believe what Kirk was trying to say that despite his choice to follow the Vulcan way that Spock, as a person, exemplified the traits that humanity claims to strive for: peace, honor, generosity, acceptance, caring for others, trustworthiness, selflessness and even love among others....Better than anyone, from any race, that he had ever known.

And Shatner was magnificent in that scene BTW.

Exactly. Kirk was saying that Spock represented the best qualities of humanity, and did in no way deny the things that made him different.

I believe that the music predates the Christianity-oriented lyrics, but it has been pointed out that "amazing grace" (in the sense of performing cooly under incredible pressure) does apply to Spock's character remarkably well.

 

[K'Toska]

I believe what Kirk was trying to say that despite his choice to follow the Vulcan way that Spock, as a person, exemplified the traits that humanity claims to strive for: peace, honor, generosity, acceptance, caring for others, trustworthiness, selflessness and even love among others....Better than anyone, from any race, that he had ever known.

That's exactly how I saw it too. In addition, I felt that Kirk was trying to express that Spock brings out the best of human qualities in others as well. Perhaps that's reading a bit too much between the lines but that's what the whole scene inspired me to think.