Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the sequel?

[Sharr Khan]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

Stumble in the ratings?

I'm not sure how you got that out of what I said. No, stumble story wise. Telling a good story and being "relevant" are not always one and the same.

If I want to send a message, I'll write an email... if I want to be delivered a sermon I'll find a social activist to listen to.

"Preachiness" is in Star Trek's DNA - that's part of how Roddenberry conceived it.

Maybe of TNG with its first venture creeping up in TMP. TOS, never, ever became condescending or "know it all" about itself. Oh sure it could do the social commentary thing, but it always did it as secondary to the story at hand. To some extent I also think people find allegory where they desire to see it.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

The best TOS stories weren't preachy - bad heredity can be overcome.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

However, ENT in particular was disappointing and didn't help matters.

Because of what's demonstrably true based on the trend lines you can't demonstrate that by the number of folks who watched it; it's just something that disgruntled Trekkies tell one another. So what?

No, it's objectively true that ENT was disappointing.

I'm not sure how you got that out of what I said. No, stumble story wise.

Because stumbling in the ratings is the only thing that would matter and I was making the unfounded assumption that you were talking about something relevant. Like I said, look at the ratings. Regardless of what series you like or don't like, the trend line is down overall. So how could the quality of the series have any real impact?

DS9 was superior story-wise to TNG in every possible way. Among other things, it was far less preachy, and dropped the annoying TNG assumption of Starfleet superiority altogether, so by your logic, it should have gotten better ratings than TNG, yet it got worse. Maybe the ratings prove that the audience like preachiness. They certainly don't show the reverse.

TOS, never, ever became condescending or "know it all" about itself. Oh sure it could do the social commentary thing, but it always did it as secondary to the story at hand.

TOS' messages were the story at hand, when there was a message at all. Everything supported the message. That was true of many episodes, good and bad - Devil in the Dark, A Taste of Armegeddon, Let That Be Your Last Battlefield, The Enemy Within, just for starters.

TNG did the same sort of thing, only in a more ham-handed style. DS9 reversed the annoying TNG assumption of Starfleet superiority, but still did message episodes, only the messages were more complex and less flattering to Starfleet and the Federation. VOY and ENT made occasional bungled attempts at ham-handed messages.

 

[Shazam!]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

Guys, the answer is 'yes'.

 

[sonak]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

[/QUOTE]

What I meant is that TV and movies are good at different things. You want character, plot and thematic development? TV's the right medium. You want visual whiz-bang and action? That's what movies do best. Don't expect movies to deliver what movies aren't designed to deliver, especially not the summer popcorn type of movie. [/QUOTE]

Ummm.. are you talking about just Star Trek movies or all movies, because this seems very, very wrong to me. There are all kinds of movies with "character, plot, and thematic development."


Not just arthouse movies, but sci-fi movies. Not every sci-fi movie out there is a space opera with ship-to-ship battles and big explosions.


Just a couple of "quiet sci-fi" examples are "Solaris"(new version)and "Donnie Darko"


(these are random examples, doesn't matter whether one liked them or not, they're hardly action movies. )


Trekwise,

TVH had very little action and was one of the most popular Trek movies.

 

[Sharr Khan]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

Because stumbling in the ratings is the only thing that would matter

I would think being first and foremost an interesting story to watch would be of utmost importance. Now clearly a story can be good and also not end up having wide spread appeal with the inverse also being true, suck horribly, and yet be very popular.

I'm not arguing for mindless tripe, but I am arguing that to be good it does not, nor need it follow that a piece of entertainment have a social agenda.

TNG did the same sort of thing, only in a more ham-handed style.

Ham-handed here translates as GR getting free range to go on a crusade to enlighten us rubes from his production office. I think he did better with suits looking over his shoulder. There are many (with the majority being in the first season) TNG episodes I can barely watch because they're really busy being on a high horse. Didn't ever have that experience so much with DS9 or Enterprise, but that is just me.

Its possible to like Star Trek as a whole, for varied reasons.

 

[Kelso]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

Question: Does the six-pack refer to Joe's abs or his beer? I've always wondered that.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

Question: Does the six-pack refer to Joe's abs or his beer? I've always wondered that.

Beer. Average Joe doesn't have good abs, but he does drink beer and get drunk. That might account for the bad abs.

 

[Aldo]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

Well I rewatched the film just now. I must say it is a really good film. Ok, so maybe I'm going to be eating crow on this, but I didn't feel the action overwhelmed the story at all.

That's not to say I didn't have problems with the film though. I understand they were going for an origin story and all, but it felt like they were trying to cram two story's into one. Namely Kirk joining Starfleet and the whole Nero storyline. Each premise could have been expanded and made a really good film, but cramming it all into one film deprived each storyline of real meat.

 

[SilentP]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

Well I rewatched the film just now. I must say it is a really good film. Ok, so maybe I'm going to be eating crow on this, but I didn't feel the action overwhelmed the story at all.

That's not to say I didn't have problems with the film though. I understand they were going for an origin story and all, but it felt like they were trying to cram two story's into one. Namely Kirk joining Starfleet and the whole Nero storyline. Each premise could have been expanded and made a really good film, but cramming it all into one film deprived each storyline of real meat.

Agreed, that and Spock's storyline about dealing with his heritage. 3 story threads in a single action movie is quite demanding.

 

[Tarek71]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

There are several aspects of the newest Trek film I really enjoy. I feel the actors were well cast, the film has a crisp look to it that I feel makes it feel fresh while recalling classic Trek. I also love the music of the film.

I just feel it had too much action!

Ok but theres no inherent contradiction between action and intelligence. You can have a smart movie with smart characters in a well written story and yet there is alot of action. The stupidity of ST XI is not the result of action. If there had been less action, it would not have been a smarter movie. There just would have been less action.

Alot of the movie didnt require a whole lot of brain cells, at least not in the parts of the brain that involve higher reasoning. You could just have the stimulation of lights, flashes, bells and whistles. Like a rat hitting a button to get another dose of endorphins.

 

[Devon]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

Alot of the movie didnt require a whole lot of brain cells, at least not in the parts of the brain that involve higher reasoning.

Well it is a Star Trek film after all.

 

[Aldo]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

Well, after watching the film (like I said above) I have kind of changed my mind since posting the original topic.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

Alot of the movie didnt require a whole lot of brain cells, at least not in the parts of the brain that involve higher reasoning. You could just have the stimulation of lights, flashes, bells and whistles. Like a rat hitting a button to get another dose of endorphins.

You mean it was a skiffy movie?

JJTrek was as smart as any of the Trek movies; people just talked (a little) less.

 

[Balrog]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

I don't think is was an origin story. It was an attempt to establish a new universe for the old characters story. Now they are free to write what they want without people blasting them about teh timelines. For me, it worked.

As far as the action goes - if it's good, do it. If it's stupid, don't. The action worked for the movie, and they obviously were also able to tell a compelling story too - they made lots of $$$$.

Something tells me the next movie will attempt to do the same. And I say good for them. Some of those Trek films were real snoozers.

 

[ichab]

Re: Is it too much to hope that they'll cut back the action in the seq

Well I rewatched the film just now. I must say it is a really good film. Ok, so maybe I'm going to be eating crow on this, but I didn't feel the action overwhelmed the story at all.

That's not to say I didn't have problems with the film though. I understand they were going for an origin story and all, but it felt like they were trying to cram two story's into one. Namely Kirk joining Starfleet and the whole Nero storyline. Each premise could have been expanded and made a really good film, but cramming it all into one film deprived each storyline of real meat.

Personally I thought they should have inserted a couple deleted scenes

-Spock being born on Vulcan. Would have been a nice contrast to Kirk being born on a ship.
-Nero's capture and then escape from the Klingons. This would have helped explain what he was doing for the twenty years of waiting for Spock to arrive through the hole.

Overall I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the movie. I also hope that there is some relevant point made to go along with all the action in the sequel.