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Is it safe to say that the DS9 Relaunch is dead?

If DS9 had used the time jump as a normal part of it's storytelling, like Cold Case (which I haven't seen), then sure. It's valid. Use of flashbacks was also appropriate in Emmisary because it was the first time we'd met Sisko and it was showing us how he got to where we'd met him. This is taking an ongoing storyline, hacking a big hole in the middle of it, screwing up the characters in what is usually a really bad way and then continuing along. Unless years long jumps are going to be a continuing part of the stories then it is a stunt.

It wasn't a stunt. You're failing to consider the context. In addition to the factors I mentioned before, it was a reaction to the fact that DS9 had fallen years behind the continuity of much of the rest of the ST novel line. When Destiny was developed as a major crossover event, unifying the 24th-century series to an unprecedented degree, DS9 characters and elements had to be mostly left out for fear of spoiling things in a series whose "now" was four or five years behind what would be everyone else's "now" from then on. A lot of people -- not just Margaret but a lot of posters here on the TrekBBS -- found that awkward. Just as you and some others find it awkward to force the series to jump forward.

And you know what? Both points of view are right. There were good reasons to keep DS9 in its own separate present, and there were good reasons to jump it forward into synch with the rest of the 24th-century books. Either way, something would be gained and something would be lost. So it came down to individual editorial judgment. Marco had one preference, Margaret had another, because they're different people. And no matter which way the decision had been made, there would be people on this BBS complaining about it and insisting that only possible "right" way to do it would be the one that wasn't done.
 
And no matter which way the decision had been made, there would be people on this BBS complaining about it and insisting that only possible "right" way to do it would be the one that wasn't done.
Well, of course there would be! The moment all of fandom is satisfied, it'll collapse in on itself into a giant black hole, destroying Earth. ;)
 
If DS9 had used the time jump as a normal part of it's storytelling, like Cold Case (which I haven't seen), then sure. It's valid. Use of flashbacks was also appropriate in Emmisary because it was the first time we'd met Sisko and it was showing us how he got to where we'd met him. This is taking an ongoing storyline, hacking a big hole in the middle of it, screwing up the characters in what is usually a really bad way and then continuing along. Unless years long jumps are going to be a continuing part of the stories then it is a stunt.

It wasn't a stunt. You're failing to consider the context. In addition to the factors I mentioned before, it was a reaction to the fact that DS9 had fallen years behind the continuity of much of the rest of the ST novel line. When Destiny was developed as a major crossover event, unifying the 24th-century series to an unprecedented degree, DS9 characters and elements had to be mostly left out for fear of spoiling things in a series whose "now" was four or five years behind what would be everyone else's "now" from then on. A lot of people -- not just Margaret but a lot of posters here on the TrekBBS -- found that awkward. Just as you and some others find it awkward to force the series to jump forward.

And you know what? Both points of view are right. There were good reasons to keep DS9 in its own separate present, and there were good reasons to jump it forward into synch with the rest of the 24th-century books. Either way, something would be gained and something would be lost. So it came down to individual editorial judgment. Marco had one preference, Margaret had another, because they're different people. And no matter which way the decision had been made, there would be people on this BBS complaining about it and insisting that only possible "right" way to do it would be the one that wasn't done.

Although I'm not a huge fan of the tighter continuity between the 24th century novel series, I understand that it made sense for DS9 to join the party. My issue is one more of execution.

Perhaps, rather than going for the "Whoa, everything is different!" perhaps there should have been some attempt to bring DS9 closer to the other series before Destiny. Then, the changes would have felt a natural part of the ongoing story and not an attempt to simple show how radically things have changed for the DS9 characters. Maybe a two or three book series, instead of the overly long and unnecessary side trip into the mirror universe.

Some may see a large time skip as a jumping on point since everyone is in the same boat plot wide. For me, along with the overly dark places the DS9 characters ended up, made it more of a jumping off point. Too bad really. Hopefully I'll find the 23rd century more to my liking.
 
perhaps there should have been some attempt to bring DS9 closer to the other series before Destiny. Then, the changes would have felt a natural part of the ongoing story and not an attempt to simple show how radically things have changed for the DS9 characters. Maybe a two or three book series...

There wasn't time. The books in the "Destiny" crossover trilogy (and an expanded hardcover omnibus of "Crucible") were projected to ride the coattails of pre-publicity for JJ Abram's ST movie (which ended up getting delayed anyway). Had "Destiny" totally ignored DS9, lots of fans of that series would have expressed anger and resentment.
 
perhaps there should have been some attempt to bring DS9 closer to the other series before Destiny. Then, the changes would have felt a natural part of the ongoing story and not an attempt to simple show how radically things have changed for the DS9 characters. Maybe a two or three book series...

There wasn't time. The books in the "Destiny" crossover trilogy (and an expanded hardcover omnibus of "Crucible") were projected to ride the coattails of pre-publicity for JJ Abram's ST movie (which ended up getting delayed anyway). Had "Destiny" totally ignored DS9, lots of fans of that series would have expressed anger and resentment.

And we've all seen just how much of an impact the latest film had on treklit. :rolleyes:

I didn't realize that there was only one writer available. I guess having a different writer on the DS9 project and Destiny wouldn't have workd either. :rommie:

Honestly, the situation could have been handled much better than it was. "Here's the set up for this story that we started almost a decade ago.....and here's everything screwed up with no explanation. Want to find out what happened? Buy the books and maybe we'll tell you. Or we'll just go forward from here."

I know that is not the way that it was inteneded but that's how it feels. You invest your time and money following a series. Then the pay off is just sort of allowed to die in it's crib. Maybe it's not fully dead but it just as easily could be.
 
And we've all seen just how much of an impact the latest film had on treklit. :rolleyes:

Oh? My observation is that sales are up, compared to how they were going in the months before the movie. Certainly, numerous Sydney bookstores are stocking lots of ST recent novels, and the supplies get replenished often. Regular stores, which only took two or three of each new title (sea freighted), are stocking ten or so at a time (air freighted, and with S&S Aust. absorbing the added cost). The specialist SF store holds lots of copies of each new ST title as standing orders, plus lots for the shelves. And they, too, disappear fast, including the new YA movie books!

I didn't realize that there was only one writer available. I guess having a different writer on the DS9 project and Destiny wouldn't have workd either. :rommie:
Well, then you open up the character incompatibility problems many people saw (and complained bitterly about) between the TNG post-"Nemesis" books, all being written simultaneously by different authors.

Maybe it's not fully dead but it just as easily could be.
But it's not.

Sigh. Well, there's no answer to that. You continue to be dissatisfied and nothing any of us say will change your negativity.

maybe we'll tell you

You really think that the authors who've filled almost every gap in the canonical three-centuries of timeline will really leave a four-year gap - and a war with aliens - vacant for too long?

When's the next big DS9 anniversary?
 
You really think that the authors who've filled almost every gap in the canonical three-centuries of timeline will really leave a four-year gap - and a war with aliens - vacant for too long?
I dunno. There hasn't been much movement on filling in the Selelvian War over the last six years. ;)

When's the next big DS9 anniversary?
20th anniversary is in 2013. Though if TNG's 20th is anything to go by, there's not going to be much more material than a "normal" year; by my count, TNG got an anthology, and three novels.
 
I'd buy that if it were all it were. But once people start trying to assign where the "finale" would fall -- or even to break the books down into a 26-episode structure as I've seen some do in the past -- that's just taking the "season" metaphor way, way too literally, and it's missing the point of the post-finale novels, which were specifically designed to take advantage of the potentials of the novel format to tell stories in ways they couldn't be told in episodic television.
That's me :techman:

And actually I mostly took that on as a project to learn, through doing, the craft of script-writing and adaptation from prose to screenplay.

I already understand all the arguments you're going to make to tell me I'm wrong. But this has been a project for my own entertainment that doesn't take anything away from the original material, and I've enjoyed doing it.

And I think it turns out that the stories do map quite well onto a TV-season format. Granted, they feel more like a Buffy season than a DS9 season (one major villain per season, hints and foreshadowing in the early episodes leading to explanations later, with continuing character arcs), but Star Trek was moving in that direction anyway in late Enterprise. It also requires multiple two-parters per season, which is also something Enterprise was doing at the end. So really it's not all that different.
 
The Internet is already a giant black hole...

Perhaps. But I find it to be much like any other tool in life.....it is what you make it (or in this case, what we make of it). And having writers like yourself (and David) put some valuable insight into how things are happening behind the scenes is very much appreciated.
 
perhaps there should have been some attempt to bring DS9 closer to the other series before Destiny. Then, the changes would have felt a natural part of the ongoing story and not an attempt to simple show how radically things have changed for the DS9 characters. Maybe a two or three book series...

There wasn't time. The books in the "Destiny" crossover trilogy (and an expanded hardcover omnibus of "Crucible") were projected to ride the coattails of pre-publicity for JJ Abram's ST movie (which ended up getting delayed anyway). Had "Destiny" totally ignored DS9, lots of fans of that series would have expressed anger and resentment.

And we've all seen just how much of an impact the latest film had on treklit. :rolleyes:

I didn't realize that there was only one writer available. I guess having a different writer on the DS9 project and Destiny wouldn't have workd either. :rommie:

Honestly, the situation could have been handled much better than it was. "Here's the set up for this story that we started almost a decade ago.....and here's everything screwed up with no explanation. Want to find out what happened? Buy the books and maybe we'll tell you. Or we'll just go forward from here."

I know that is not the way that it was inteneded but that's how it feels. You invest your time and money following a series. Then the pay off is just sort of allowed to die in it's crib. Maybe it's not fully dead but it just as easily could be.
You're jumping to tons of conclusions here. We have no idea where the DS9 story and characters are going, for all we know tomorrow David R. George III or David Mack could announce that they are doing a big TPB trilogy that fills in all of the gaps. I'm sorry, but it is really way, way to early to start jumping to conclusion about where the story is or isn't going. IMO we should at least get to read a DS9 book, before we complain about where the DS9 story is going. For all we know the next DS9 book we get could be a big story that sees
Sisko, Vaughn, and Shar return to DS9's Starfleet crew, Kira become the Bajoran Temple's head Vedek, and the Aventine get reassigned to DS9.
We just need to give them time to actually do a story that focuses on DS9, it's characters, and it's story. Maybe once things get established we'll actually like what they establish better than what we had before.
 
Do you honestly believe that after giving us a fairly brief look at where the DS9 characters are now that RPTB are going to answer all the questions that the've raised immediately? Draw it out, drop a snippet here, a hit there, maybe a longer portion in a book or two. I'd say two years minimum before there's even a chance of having the four year gap filled in. Even with that, it won't answer all the questions. You don't do something like this and answer all the questions right away. Build the antici.....pation! :rommie:
 
Do you honestly believe that after giving us a fairly brief look at where the DS9 characters are now that RPTB are going to answer all the questions that the've raised immediately? Draw it out, drop a snippet here, a hit there, maybe a longer portion in a book or two. I'd say two years minimum before there's even a chance of having the four year gap filled in. Even with that, it won't answer all the questions. You don't do something like this and answer all the questions right away. Build the antici.....pation! :rommie:

So why are you sounding like the impatient one? :confused:
 
Because, I view the four year jump as a stunt. A cheat if you will. We had the build up in DS9-R and then the wheels fell off. Now, instead of picking up the storyline and perhaps woking the time jump into the story, it's going to get dragged out even longer. It's like a murder mystery. There's lots of questions posed in chapter one. Don't expect the murderer to be revealed in chapter two.
 
We had the build up in DS9-R and then the wheels fell off.

So you say.

And if a new Ascendants War(?) story had come out immediately after the "wheels fell off", perhaps it wouldn't have sold very well. Maybe it was time for a break? I'm sick of war myself: the Dominion War, the Borg Wars, the so-far-unseen Selelvian War. I'm rather thankful that the Typhon Pact races (and the authors) are tackling things differently in the current mini-series. Leave war to the RPGs.

I'm not really sure I was looking forward to a battle with the Ascendants so soon after DS9's Dominion woes. I'm happy to get back to some exploration, both in the galaxy and within the soul.
 
Therin, the latest star trek books are depicting a grim picture of a federation tearing itself apart, being challenged to a cold war by a new rival, politically stabler, militarily superior, etc.

This is supposed to be "some exploration, both in the galaxy and within the soul"?


As for the DS9 relaunch, kkozoriz1 has a valid POV - the Ascendants storyline was built up for years. But the series utterly failed to deliver on the hype when the time came - that's the largest failure of the DS9 relaunch yet.

And now, the series is heading towards another years-long build-up (at the soonest, the next DS9 book will appear in 2012 - and I'm being optimistic).

As for the Ascendants, that storyline is currently abandoned - you do NOT give away the conclusion of the storyline in RBoE if you intend to actually tell the story, if there are any even slightly concrete plans to do so at all.
 
Therin, the latest star trek books are depicting a grim picture of a federation tearing itself apart, being challenged to a cold war by a new rival, politically stabler, militarily superior, etc.

Have you read them?

2 of the Typhon Pact series.
'ZSG' is, chronologically, the most advanced book I read. It contains snippets such as the federation president/advisors/admirals stating directly that there's a cold war between the federation and the Typhon Pact, that the only reason the Typhon Pact doesn't attack a weakened federation is slip-stream tech, that, if the federation lost this tech to the Pact, in as little as a year the federation will become a second rate power and then it's game over, etc.

Only 'Paths of disharmony' takes place later -
and it depicts the andorians leaving the federation. Not very "some exploration, both in the galaxy and within the soul", but quite "a grim picture of a federation tearing itself apart, being challenged to a cold war by a new rival, politically stabler, militarily superior, etc."

This is supposed to be "some exploration, both in the galaxy and within the soul"?
I'm hoping that is yet to come.
Hoping, Therin?
I'm discussing the current state of trek lit, NOT what you're 'hoping' will happen - and the current trend of trek lit does not align well at all with your 'hope'.
 
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Only 'Paths of disharmony' takes place later -
and it depicts the andorians leaving the federation.

Your telling the novel's credited beta reader. ;)

Hoping, Therin?
I'm discussing the current state of trek lit, NOT what you're 'hoping' will happen - and the current trend of trek lit does not align well at all with your 'hope'.

So glad you are "in" on what's to come. The rest of us can just "hope", but in the knowledge that Star Trek's ideals should win out in the end.
 
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