Is it Logical for Vulcans to be prejudice?

[1bulma1]

One thing that baffled me about this movie is how the Vulcans where so racist to NuSpock and his human mother. I though Vulcans where supposed to be the intelligent ones, the race known for making perfect decision and being reasonable yet Spock was emotionally and physical abused because of his human heritage. How illogical is that?

Sarek did not even help matters either when he indirectly told Spock that he was not a product of love. Telling that to an already emotional unstable child is just not a logical decision.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Vulcans are the most arrogant, condescending, presumptuous, self-absorbed, pompous jackasses in the entire Star Trek universe.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Vulcans are often perceived as being arrogant, condescending, and prejudiced towards other races because they reject what most races freely indulge in--allowing emotions to dictate their actions.

But children are the same regardless who they are. Bullies exist in every culture, including the Vulcan one. The children that bullied Spock had yet to fully mature as was the case for Spock actually.

 

[Mysterion]

The Vulcans talk a good game usually, but in the end they are just as fallible as everyone else.

While the Vulcans, as a people, aspire to a state of pure logic and non-emotion, it is just an aspiration. They aren't born that way.

 

[Gojira]

Since logic is something Vulcans cultivate as they get older it is only natural that their children would not have the developmental ability to deal with their emotions until they are older.

 

[Christopher]

Logic is only as good as the assumptions it's based on. It's simply a mechanism for deriving a conclusion from a set of premises, and if the initial premises are flawed, the results will be as well. Humans in real life have used highly logical arguments to justify their prejudices many times in the past. ("Logic, my dear Zoe, merely enables one to be wrong with authority." -- Doctor Who, "The Wheel in Space")

Also, note that Vulcans are not innately logical. Logic is a worldview that they've trained themselves to embrace as a means of restraining their intense passions. And some of them are going to be better at overcoming their inherent irrationality than others. Some will genuinely use good logic and well-researched evidence to lead them to reasoned and responsible conclusions, while others will use shoddy logic to justify their preconceptions and pettiness. It's the same way some humans are inspired by religious faith to better themselves and help others while many just use religious dogma as an excuse for pursuing power and oppressing other people. Logic, like religion, is a tool, and whether a tool is used constructively or harmfully depends on the intent, skill, and responsibility of the wielder.

 

[F. King Daniel]

No, it's not logical. But, Vulcans falling short of their ideal has been a staple of Trek since the outset.

And, yes, if Sarek had told 10-year-old Spock that he loved Amanda, it probably would have saved the kid 20something years of turmoil.

 

[borgboy]

I think Sarek comes off as a real jerk for looking down on Spock for not being Vulcan enough. Sarek had a child with a human woman, he should accept that that child would have some human traits and characteristics. Sarek comes off as a bigot and highly illogical for how he treats Spock. I'm referring to the Sarek of the original tv series and spin offs, novels, etc as well as the movie Sarek.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Vulcans are often perceived as being arrogant, condescending, and prejudiced towards other races because they reject what most races freely indulge in--allowing emotions to dictate their actions.

Or, in the case of people like Captain Solok, they DON'T reject those things.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Vulcans are often perceived as being arrogant, condescending, and prejudiced towards other races because they reject what most races freely indulge in--allowing emotions to dictate their actions.

Or, in the case of people like Captain Solok, they DON'T reject those things.

Solok was the Vulcan equivalent of Doctor McCoy in the sense he frequently needled Sisko about his shortcomings. Sisko and Solok were classmates (and more importantly, rivals) at the Academy. They've been arguing over logic versus emotion and trading insults with one another for at least 20 years...

 

[Franklin]

One thing that baffled me about this movie is how the Vulcans where so racist to NuSpock and his human mother. I though Vulcans where supposed to be the intelligent ones, the race known for making perfect decision and being reasonable yet Spock was emotionally and physical abused because of his human heritage. How illogical is that?

Sarek did not even help matters either when he indirectly told Spock that he was not a product of love. Telling that to an already emotional unstable child is just not a logical decision.

There's no logic involved. At least none to be proud of. This isn't arrogance, either. This is pure prejudice. It's even racist. The acts of the children can be explained away, but the remarks made by the head of the Vulcan Academy about Spock's "handicap" were terrible and unexcusable. No one in any civilized society, whether it's dedicated to logic or not, should think that way. And, what about IDIC?
I'd like to think he meant Spock had to overcome cultural temptations he may have been exposed to by a human mother. Things a typical Vulcan growing up wouldn't be exposed to.
If he meant the "handicap" was genetic, then Sarek should've gotten up and punched-out his lights, right there. That was his son he said that to. And Sarek just sat there and took it.

In this day and age, can you imagine a college president making remarks like that to someone?
President: "Your performance was outstanding. And it was made even more outstanding considering the handicap you had to overcome."
Student: "Sir?"
President: "Well, your mother was a commoner." [Or Latino, or Jewish, or Catholic, a laborer, or black, or whatever.]

That guy wouldn't have a job the next day.

 

[Greg Cox]

The Vulcans have never been the paragons they think they are. Spock being taunted by other Vulcan children was mentioned as far back as "Journey to Babel." And how logical was it for Sarek to not speak to his own son for eighteen years because he disapproved of Spock's decision to join Starfleet? Or to hide his heart condition from his wife?

And let's not forget T'Pring plotting to get Kirk or Spock killed so she can marry Stonn instead. Or Valeris joining the conspiracy to assassinate Gorkon and scuttle the Klingon peace talks . . . .

Aside from Spock, Vulcan have been capable of bad behavior since the earliest days of TOS.

 

[Psion]

The average Vulcan is stronger than the average human, smarter, has greater endurance, greater self-discipline, and will live about three times longer. They are reliably telepathic and have been at peace with their own kind for two thousand years.

Thinking they are superior to humans isn't prejudice, it is a simple acknowledgement of empirical fact. Unfortunately, this also leads to a sort of sloppy thinking that allows them to underestimate human determination.

 

[Miss Lemon]

Logic is only as good as the assumptions it's based on. It's simply a mechanism for deriving a conclusion from a set of premises, and if the initial premises are flawed, the results will be as well.

Good point.

Reading the above replies, I'm actually a bit surprised. I remember when ENT was out and many fans where miffed about the Vulcans being un-Vulcan. To me it seems that their behaviour can be explained in the same way.

 

[Greg Cox]

Reading the above replies, I'm actually a bit surprised. I remember when ENT was out and many fans where miffed about the Vulcans being un-Vulcan. .

That always baffled me, and seemed an odd sort of collective amnesia. Like certains fans had idealized Spock so much that they had forgotten how Vulcans had really been portrayed as far back as "Journey to Babel" and "Amok Time."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Vulcans are often perceived as being arrogant, condescending, and prejudiced towards other races because they reject what most races freely indulge in--allowing emotions to dictate their actions.

Or, in the case of people like Captain Solok, they DON'T reject those things.

Solok was the Vulcan equivalent of Doctor McCoy in the sense he frequently needled Sisko about his shortcomings.

A logical being would not do that. A logical being would not believe in the concept of "shortcomings".

Sisko and Solok were classmates (and more importantly, rivals) at the Academy. They've been arguing over logic versus emotion and trading insults with one another for at least 20 years...

Solok was obviously emotional. Arrogant, racist, bigoted, emotional. You could smell it on him.

Insults are, by definition, emotional, so if Solok insulted Sisko routinely, then by definition Solok was not acting logically. Believing the Vulcan race to be superior, as Solok did, is also an emotional and illogical reaction.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Or, in the case of people like Captain Solok, they DON'T reject those things.

Solok was the Vulcan equivalent of Doctor McCoy in the sense he frequently needled Sisko about his shortcomings.

A logical being would not do that. A logical being would not believe in the concept of "shortcomings".

I totally disagree. In fact, I believe it was Surak's pointing out the shortcomings of the early Vulcan race that led to the Time of the Awakening.

In the case of Solok and Sisko, trading barbs with one another was something that started in their Academy days as young, likely teenage men. Their relationship is merely the reverse of the Spock and McCoy one.

Sisko and Solok were classmates (and more importantly, rivals) at the Academy. They've been arguing over logic versus emotion and trading insults with one another for at least 20 years...

Solok was obviously emotional. Arrogant, racist, bigoted, emotional. You could smell it on him.

The only thing I agree with there is arrogant. Everything else, not really. I think that's more of your feelings towards Vulcans talking.

Insults are, by definition, emotional, so if Solok insulted Sisko routinely, then by definition Solok was not acting logically. Believing the Vulcan race to be superior, as Solok did, is also an emotional and illogical reaction.

Nah, there's nothing that says that Vulcans can't be insulting. In fact, they often are. We know from various episodes that Vulcans are capable of emotions--in fact, very intense and potentially self-destructive emotions if we believe Spock and Tuvok. Logic is merely a tool to aid in the suppression of those emotions, but it does not eliminate them by any means. The only Vulcans totally devoid of emotions are presumably those who have successfully mastered the Kolinahr, and I believe they represent the smallest fraction of the Vulcan race. Everyone just tries the best they can to live logical lives, but not everything they do is logical by many of their own admission. Love is not logical, and yet Vulcans do fall in love regardless.

 

[Maurice]

Re: Is it Logical for Vulcans to be prejudice[d]?

Sorry to nitpick, but it's not prejudice (noun), it's prejudiced (adjective). The former is like saying "Is it logical for Vulcans to be wall/Ohio/Jim Kirk?" as opposed to "Is it logical for Vulcans to be jerks/mauve/asshats?"

 

[7thsealord]

I think Sarek comes off as a real jerk for looking down on Spock for not being Vulcan enough. Sarek had a child with a human woman, he should accept that that child would have some human traits and characteristics. Sarek comes off as a bigot and highly illogical for how he treats Spock. I'm referring to the Sarek of the original tv series and spin offs, novels, etc as well as the movie Sarek.

Parents are not always logical.

Trying to make sure your kids avoid at least some of the mistakes you made AND will survive (and, hopefully, prosper) in whatever world they grow up in can be a tall order.

 

[Timo]

Why should being prejudiced be considered illogical? It appears factually true that humans are inferior to Vulcans, in every respect that would matter to the Vulcan Science Academy at least - so trying to pretend to view humans as equals would be disingenuous and, if the lying did not serve some strategic goal, extremely illogical.

Of course, lying is often the logical thing to do, as it promotes social cohesion in addition to serving the interests of the individual. But Vulcans lying to other Vulcans that humans are equals does not serve any obvious purpose. And the myth that Vulcans don't lie would have gotten started somewhere.

Prejudice is just judice implemented without unnecessary delay. It is illogical only when it is literally prejudice, when it is formulated before the facts are known. But in practice, prejudice refers to the accumulation of experience instead. Although many are ready to substitute hearsay for experience, which again leads to illogic.

As for racism, its arguments tend to be factual and logical. Its implementation is the aspect that is not. But I can't see a downside for Vulcans implementing racism, either. Or an upside for them abstaining from it, rather.

Timo Saloniemi