Is it just me, or is Star Trek going the wrong way?

[cooleddie74]

TNG isn't even consistent with itself in some cases. In-universe details get retconned or even flubbed with inaccurate writing and characters display noble, near-utopian behavior in one episode and then borderline dangerous behavior in another, all the while showing us that the squeaky clean Federation of the late 24th century is anything BUT.

 

[The Wormhole]

I've seen very little of TOS

Then where do you get off preaching what is or isn't Star Trek?

TNG was huge and much wider in scope than TOS, and far more popular in terms of ratings.

TNG may have done better in first run ratings, but TOS arguably has made the bigger pop culture impact.

 

[fireproof78]

So no, I neither accept that those points are intrinsic in defining Trek, nor that the current shows are notably worse in reflecting them than their predecessors.

Exactly. It's not better; it's not worse. Just different. Mileage will vary as to personal enjoyment.

 

[F. King Daniel]

You've got me there. I've seen very little of TOS besides all of the movies. I do think TNG is the epitome of what Star Trek ought to be, and based on the original cast films I don't see much conflict between the original cast (in the films) and TOS.

See, there's your problem.

 

[Steve Roby]

See, there's your problem.

Dammit. Beat me to it.

TNG is not the first Star Trek series, nor is it the best. Fuck knows I’ve said this before, but TNG is an outlier, not the Platonic ideal of what Star Trek should be.

 

[Awesome Possum]

All of Star Trek is Star Trek, every Star Trek is someone's first Star Trek and their most beloved series, and every Star Trek is both good and bad in their own ways and purely in the eyes of the person who watches it. Gatekeeping what is and isn't Star Trek is shitty behavior and so is thinking you're superior to other fans for liking a show that you hate. It doesn't make you smarter. It doesn't make you better. It definitely doesn't make your favorite Star Trek better. It just makes you an asshole who is trying to make other people miserable for loving a show.

 

[Steve Roby]

Excluding the original Star Trek from discussions of what Star Trek is and should be is my least favourite form of gatekeeping. The original Star Trek TV series created the Star Trek universe. It's not a footnote of merely trivial historical interest. The Next Generation is one of many offshoots, one of many different ways of portraying and exploring the Star Trek universe. Shows that do things differently from TNG, by incorporating more conflict between characters, by questioning the perfection of the Star Trek future, are not a rejection of real Star Trek, they're another form of it, drawing from the original.

 

[JoseNoodles]

Remember when Enterprise got cancelled, could you imagine that we'd be getting an ongoing Captain Pike series?

I remember when Enterprise got canned, I figured I would never see another Star Trek series on television ever again. Sure there might be comics and novels and even Star Trek Online, but for all intents and purposes the canon Star Trek universe was done. The Abrams reboot films seemed to confirm this, ostensibly being a clean slate where future Star Trek projects could either incorporate or ignore large segments of the old canon at will. The closest to thing to the Star Trek Primeverse were comic book universes, which either periodically reinvented themselves through reboots or became dead universes. Dead universes were just that, dead; comic book continuities that were no longer explored and no new (canon) stories were published. The Star Trek Primeverse was a dead universe. Luckily it was revived, so I'm not going to complain too much, because it could have stayed dead.

 

[HappyMcWonderful]

The Animated Series in reruns in the mid 1970s/early 1980s was my first exposure to Trek, as was TMP/TWOK and so on. While other kids were Star Warsing across the universe I had this.

Fast forward to the modern era -- I've re-read some of the early novels and re-watched favorite episodes... and they are a product of their era. In order to keep people hooked and coming back for more Star Trek has to change. It's painful. At times I'm watching Not My Star Trek, and there's a lot I don't agree with.

But they did us a HUGE favor this time around. We have Discovery for the ultra-preacy SJW-In-Space crowd... we have Picard for Time Traveling Hero Stops OrangeManBad From Creating Mirror Universe, and we have Lower Decks for those of us who want something fun and escapist with a humorous twist. Not sure where Star Trek: Get Pike'd will fall on that spectrum . My sincere hope is it avoids the Perpetual Crisis Mode of Discovery, more episodic fewer unending plot-arcs full of grimdark and recriminations.

Again, this is like... my OPINION, man. Some people will agree with it and that's cool. Others will not and that's also cool.

 

[Weyoun 251]

The Animated Series in reruns in the mid 1970s/early 1980s was my first exposure to Trek, as was TMP/TWOK and so on. While other kids were Star Warsing across the universe I had this.

Fast forward to the modern era -- I've re-read some of the early novels and re-watched favorite episodes... and they are a product of their era. In order to keep people hooked and coming back for more Star Trek has to change. It's painful. At times I'm watching Not My Star Trek, and there's a lot I don't agree with.

But they did us a HUGE favor this time around. We have Discovery for the ultra-preacy SJW-In-Space crowd... we have Picard for Time Traveling Hero Stops OrangeManBad From Creating Mirror Universe, and we have Lower Decks for those of us who want something fun and escapist with a humorous twist. Not sure where Star Trek: Get Pike'd will fall on that spectrum . My sincere hope is it avoids the Perpetual Crisis Mode of Discovery, more episodic fewer unending plot-arcs full of grimdark and recriminations.

Again, this is like... my OPINION, man. Some people will agree with it and that's cool. Others will not and that's also cool.

In what way is Disco "SJW" and "preachy"? Also how does that differ much from the message that was presented in Old Trek?

Presume "OrangeManBad" is a Trump reference? We have two trailers to go off for the season you are referencing so, unless you have managed to steal the footage prepared so far, care to elaborate?

Fairs fair on whether Trek is escapist - purely subjective and therefore whilst it isn't for me that doesn't stop anyone else from finding it to be and I agree that LD offers up the closest to it if I was to agree with the feeling.

Star Trek: Get Pike'd - love it. Got to be the branding on a Trek themed energy drink or something!

 

[Steve Roby]

We have Discovery for the ultra-preacy SJW-In-Space crowd...

So, like most Star Trek shows, then.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Star Trek: Discovery | The Trek BBS

 

[fireproof78]

In what way is Disco "SJW" and "preachy"? Also how does that differ much from the message that was presented in Old Trek?

It's actually not but the facts are not relevant to the emotions of the moment. What I have learned in my dalliances in Star Trek fandom is that feel good in the moment/instant gratification style storytelling is much more preferred in Star Trek. Nice, neat, and not at all that challenging. It's like how a lot of Batman stories would go-at the end of it all Batman was still Batman and everyone moved on with their lives.

In that vein, as you note regarding Lower Decks, that show is the closest to "escapist" because it leaves the status as quo as it found it. It is what I tend to call "comfort food viewing" where things are not so different that we can't turn it on and turn the brain off. Ok, that's a very surface level analysis but that's the impression I have been gathering.

 

[cooleddie74]

SJW and preachy is definitely a new thing in Trek.

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[CorporalCaptain]

SJW and preachy is definitely a new thing in Trek.

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Indeed, that is totally not ultra-preachy in a war for social justice in the southernmost part of the galaxy.

 

[cooleddie74]

TOS was more SJW than most shows now are. It had all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the crotch.

 

[Steve Roby]

Deep Space Nine was pretty damn subtle. I'm sure no one picked up on any SJW stuff in "Rejoined" or "Rules of Acquisition" or "Far Beyond the Stars" or "Badda-Bing, Badda-Boom" or...

 

[JoseNoodles]

Preaching?!...In My Star Trek...No!...Not in My Trek!...Never in My Star Trek!

 

[The Old Mixer]

Never in My Star Trek!

"He's not gonna tell us about the gazelle again, is he...?"

 

[JoseNoodles]

"He's not gonna tell us about the gazelle again, is he...?"

We can't be afraid of the wind, Large Gathering of Unmasked People.