Is it just me, or is Star Trek going the wrong way?

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by LunaticBurnout, Oct 9, 2020.

  1. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

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    That's emblematic of the hypocrisy and shallowness of much of the positive view of humanity/Federation. People outside our heroes are constantly doing horrible things, which hardly reflects a positive view of humanity and the Federation. It's often just a product of the lazy writing which was particularly common in the Berman era, where people outside our heroes were used to make our heroes look more heroic and to create conflict, but it's nonetheless part of the narrative. Even when our heroes do it they face no consequences (see Archer engaging in piracy and torture, Janeway nearly killing an Equinox crewmember, Sisko's use of chemical weapons to displace civilians, etc).

    Let's not forget that the Federation won the Dominion war through biological warfare, attempted genocide and a false-flag assassination. Oh, and there was also a false-flag attack on Earth which was used to repress the population. All, mind you, with virtually no consequences. Such a positive future! What wonderful humans!

    As to your other points...

    Consistency in canon? Stacks of examples of inconsistency and outright revision. First Contact, as but one example, is fundamentally inconsistent with two of Trek's most beloved episodes, Best of Both Worlds and Space Seed.

    Well-written characters? If anything, I've found that a consistent weakness in previous Trek series - plenty of Trek characters have been shallow, unlikeable and lacking development.


    So no, I neither accept that those points are intrinsic in defining Trek, nor that the current shows are notably worse in reflecting them than their predecessors.
     
  2. Ghouleddie74

    Ghouleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    TNG isn't even consistent with itself in some cases. In-universe details get retconned or even flubbed with inaccurate writing and characters display noble, near-utopian behavior in one episode and then borderline dangerous behavior in another, all the while showing us that the squeaky clean Federation of the late 24th century is anything BUT.
     
  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then where do you get off preaching what is or isn't Star Trek?
    TNG may have done better in first run ratings, but TOS arguably has made the bigger pop culture impact.
     
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  4. Hades Temperature Checker

    Hades Temperature Checker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. It's not better; it's not worse. Just different. Mileage will vary as to personal enjoyment.
     
  5. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    See, there's your problem.
     
  6. Steve Roby

    Steve Roby Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Dammit. Beat me to it.

    TNG is not the first Star Trek series, nor is it the best. Fuck knows I’ve said this before, but TNG is an outlier, not the Platonic ideal of what Star Trek should be.
     
  7. Sylvie

    Sylvie Goddess of Mischief Moderator

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    All of Star Trek is Star Trek, every Star Trek is someone's first Star Trek and their most beloved series, and every Star Trek is both good and bad in their own ways and purely in the eyes of the person who watches it. Gatekeeping what is and isn't Star Trek is shitty behavior and so is thinking you're superior to other fans for liking a show that you hate. It doesn't make you smarter. It doesn't make you better. It definitely doesn't make your favorite Star Trek better. It just makes you an asshole who is trying to make other people miserable for loving a show.
     
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  8. Steve Roby

    Steve Roby Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Excluding the original Star Trek from discussions of what Star Trek is and should be is my least favourite form of gatekeeping. The original Star Trek TV series created the Star Trek universe. It's not a footnote of merely trivial historical interest. The Next Generation is one of many offshoots, one of many different ways of portraying and exploring the Star Trek universe. Shows that do things differently from TNG, by incorporating more conflict between characters, by questioning the perfection of the Star Trek future, are not a rejection of real Star Trek, they're another form of it, drawing from the original.
     
  9. JoseNoodles

    JoseNoodles Commander Red Shirt

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    I remember when Enterprise got canned, I figured I would never see another Star Trek series on television ever again. Sure there might be comics and novels and even Star Trek Online, but for all intents and purposes the canon Star Trek universe was done. The Abrams reboot films seemed to confirm this, ostensibly being a clean slate where future Star Trek projects could either incorporate or ignore large segments of the old canon at will. The closest to thing to the Star Trek Primeverse were comic book universes, which either periodically reinvented themselves through reboots or became dead universes. Dead universes were just that, dead; comic book continuities that were no longer explored and no new (canon) stories were published. The Star Trek Primeverse was a dead universe. Luckily it was revived, so I'm not going to complain too much, because it could have stayed dead.
     
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  10. HappyMcWonderful

    HappyMcWonderful Ensign Newbie

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    The Animated Series in reruns in the mid 1970s/early 1980s was my first exposure to Trek, as was TMP/TWOK and so on. While other kids were Star Warsing across the universe I had this.

    Fast forward to the modern era -- I've re-read some of the early novels and re-watched favorite episodes... and they are a product of their era. In order to keep people hooked and coming back for more Star Trek has to change. It's painful. At times I'm watching Not My Star Trek, and there's a lot I don't agree with.

    But they did us a HUGE favor this time around. We have Discovery for the ultra-preacy SJW-In-Space crowd... we have Picard for Time Traveling Hero Stops OrangeManBad From Creating Mirror Universe, and we have Lower Decks for those of us who want something fun and escapist with a humorous twist. Not sure where Star Trek: Get Pike'd will fall on that spectrum . My sincere hope is it avoids the Perpetual Crisis Mode of Discovery, more episodic fewer unending plot-arcs full of grimdark and recriminations.

    Again, this is like... my OPINION, man. Some people will agree with it and that's cool. Others will not and that's also cool.
     
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  11. Ianburns252

    Ianburns252 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    In what way is Disco "SJW" and "preachy"? Also how does that differ much from the message that was presented in Old Trek?

    Presume "OrangeManBad" is a Trump reference? We have two trailers to go off for the season you are referencing so, unless you have managed to steal the footage prepared so far, care to elaborate?

    Fairs fair on whether Trek is escapist - purely subjective and therefore whilst it isn't for me that doesn't stop anyone else from finding it to be and I agree that LD offers up the closest to it if I was to agree with the feeling.

    Star Trek: Get Pike'd - love it. Got to be the branding on a Trek themed energy drink or something!
     
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  12. Steve Roby

    Steve Roby Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    So, like most Star Trek shows, then.
     
  13. Large Gathering of Unmasked People

    Large Gathering of Unmasked People Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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  14. Hades Temperature Checker

    Hades Temperature Checker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's actually not but the facts are not relevant to the emotions of the moment. What I have learned in my dalliances in Star Trek fandom is that feel good in the moment/instant gratification style storytelling is much more preferred in Star Trek. Nice, neat, and not at all that challenging. It's like how a lot of Batman stories would go-at the end of it all Batman was still Batman and everyone moved on with their lives.

    In that vein, as you note regarding Lower Decks, that show is the closest to "escapist" because it leaves the status as quo as it found it. It is what I tend to call "comfort food viewing" where things are not so different that we can't turn it on and turn the brain off. Ok, that's a very surface level analysis but that's the impression I have been gathering.
     
  15. Ghouleddie74

    Ghouleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    SJW and preachy is definitely a new thing in Trek.

     
  16. Cancel Culture

    Cancel Culture Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed, that is totally not ultra-preachy in a war for social justice in the southernmost part of the galaxy.
     
  17. Ghouleddie74

    Ghouleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    TOS was more SJW than most shows now are. It had all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the crotch.
     
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  18. Steve Roby

    Steve Roby Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Deep Space Nine was pretty damn subtle. I'm sure no one picked up on any SJW stuff in "Rejoined" or "Rules of Acquisition" or "Far Beyond the Stars" or "Badda-Bing, Badda-Boom" or...
     
  19. JoseNoodles

    JoseNoodles Commander Red Shirt

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  20. Large Gathering of Unmasked People

    Large Gathering of Unmasked People Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    "He's not gonna tell us about the gazelle again, is he...?"