Is it disturbing

[saddestmoon]

Yep - Empire bad, and product of a Sith Lord / Palpatines machinations.

Rebellion good, as it opposes Empire and Emperor.

Fairly clear-cut, IMO.

 

[fireproof78]

Is this an "Empire did nothing wrong" type of a thread?

I read an article recently that discussed that a cut scene would have demonstrated that the Empire was also nationalizing and regulating all markets and economics. Here is a brief summary of the dialog:

“The Rebellion is spreading and I want to be on the right side—the side I believe in,” Biggs says. “Yeah. Meanwhile I’m stuck here,” Luke responds, looking crestfallen as he explains that his responsibilities on his uncle’s moisture farm have forced him to cancel his application to the Academy yet again.

Biggs has no patience for these excuses. “What good’s all your uncle’s work if the Empire takes it over? You know they’ve already started to nationalize commerce in the central systems? It won’t be long before your uncle’s just a tenant slaving for the greater glory of the Empire.”

And the video:

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[Tuskin38]

That deleted scene is actually canon now.
It was described in some new canon work, I don't remember what book.

 

[Kerock]

Rebellion Graffiti - Tagged

 

[suarezguy]

It is obvious that yes the Rebels started the conflict but what can be easily overlooked, but maybe shouldn't be, is that they did so while the government had and was partially governed by a representative legislature.

Is this an "Empire did nothing wrong" type of a thread?

I just think it's interesting to consider that a conflict may be bad vs. bad, that one side is bad doesn't necessarily mean the one opposing it is good.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Rebels did not start the war.

The Empire started it - simply by existing at all. It deserved to be rebelled against.

 

[Spot261]

Your freedom fighter is my terrorist, it's usually a question of perspective

 

[fireproof78]

Your freedom fighter is my terrorist, it's usually a question of perspective

Something something our own point of view

 

[Spot261]

Something something our own point of view

I'm a secret sith/conservative really.

Build a wall! I mean a Galactic barrier!

I mean, er, y'know, "insert clumsy and obvious political allegory joke"

 

[fireproof78]

I'm a secret sith/conservative really.

Build a wall! I mean a Galactic barrier!

I mean, er, y'know, "insert clumsy and obvious political allegory joke"

*insert sarcastic rimshot gif here*

 

[JD]

It is obvious that yes the Rebels started the conflict but what can be easily overlooked, but maybe shouldn't be, is that they did so while the government had and was partially governed by a representative legislature.



I just think it's interesting to consider that a conflict may be bad vs. bad, that one side is bad doesn't necessarily mean the one opposing it is good.

Wasn't the Senate pretty much just there for show, with no real power?

 

[fireproof78]

Wasn't the Senate pretty much just there for show, with no real power?

They served some function, as even the military leaders on the Death Star were surprised at Tarkin's announcement, and asking how the Emperor would maintain control without the bureaucracy.

 

[Ithekro]

*insert sarcastic rimshot gif here*

Needs to be a Galactic Rimshot. As in the galaxy as the cymbals

 

[Awesome Possum]

Did the allies really start WWII by fighting the Nazis? Using the exact same logic as the OP, it could be argued that what the Nazis did was legal because they said it was.

 

[SPCTRE]

Is this an "Empire did nothing wrong" type of a thread?

yes

also, Dukat did nothing wrong, etc etc

 

[Reverend]

yes

also, Dukat did nothing wrong, etc etc

Well he didn't! He told the stupid warrior caste to close the gun ports when...oh wait, you mean the other one. never mind!

 

[jaime]

Palpatine orchestrated a war, murderer his rivals, prepared contingencies to wipe out the Jedi Order and who knows who/what else, brought on an assassination attempt, seized permanent power, killed millions, and installed himself as absolute leader.

*Then* enough people realised to organise a resistance.

So no, the evil overlord of unknown age and horrible acts brought about an armed rebellion against him years after his rise to power.

Which we've all known since at the very least, 2005. So...what the hell?

I think the thing is, the war against Palpatine and his power structures is justified, but the Empire as a whole is still essentially the republic until ANH. But then, the whole thing is described as a civil war. Which the clone wars were too...I am surprised the droid slavery angle wasn’t pushed more actually.

 

[jaime]

Pretty much every story before ANH makes it clear that the Empire was bad from the start and the Rebellion was completely justified.

Spoiler: The Force Unleashed had an origin for the Rebellion that was similar to this.

In The Force Unleashed Vader was actually the one responsible for the beginning of the Rebellion. He sends his secret apprentice on an undercover mission to gather the Empire's enemies together in one rebellion because he thought it would distract Palpatine enough that he could overthrow him. As you can probably guess, things don't go according to his plans.

I quite liked that story. Shame it ended on such a cliffhanger.

 

[jaime]

That seems at least questionable, open to interpretation. As a Senator Leia very much acted as if she had immunity from interference from the military although she didn't, at least to the point of being part of the Rebellion.



Not in the original trilogy films (I think they made the Empire feel like it at least used to be a consensual and representative supragovernment, the continuation of the Republic, though becoming much less so) although I guess that isn't directly inconsistent and even feels pretty consistent.

I think at one point the Republic to Empire model was much more based in classical history. Vader as Caesar. If this angle had continued maybe we would have seen Amidala as Cleopatra. Of course, Palpatine doesn’t quite fit this model, particularly by the time the prequels actually come along. But it’s there...especially when Palpatine was the name of a previous deposed emperor. Palpatine is not a million miles from the name the hills where the Roman Empire started, in the name of protecting its interests.
I think following the classical model more would have enriched things...this is especially true for these new sequels. Mind you, they do go a bit renaissance with things like Kylo Ren and the newfound fascination with the concept of dynastic power. Even a little with Canto Bight...maybe, the weapons sellers are to be the medici.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

You need only to look to the US Declaration of Independence to see the justification behind the rebellion. The government gets its power from the people, and when the government becomes too oppressive that it no longer serves the people, the people have a right to break away from the government and form one of its own.

Wasn't that what the Separatists were trying to do under the leadership of Count Dooku?