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is it a good ideal to bring back the draft?

You've placed that statement outside of the context of my original post, which is quite misleading of you. This isn't the 1930's, and as I stated in my post, my point is that you and I have access to a wealth of information that the everyman in the 30s did not.
I don't think it's out of context. You said your home and family would have to be under attack before you would fight; that pretty much rules out the defense of allies.

I'm sorry, I don't think I made myself very clear.

I said that most people would need the imminent threat of invasion to be motivated to fight, and immeditely followed that with my statement that I would require a threat of destruction against my home and family. I was including any credible threat to the sovereignty of my country or the lives of it's citizens, the prevention of which could very well include the defense of our allies before we are actually attacked. I included it in my head at least :lol:

So to sum up, i'm not saying I wouldn't fight, i'm saying that with the proliferation of communications the government can no longer trick me into shipping out to fight a country that was never capable of striking us in the first place.
You seem to be saying that the Draft can be used wrongly, not that it is wrong in principle.

Yeah that's right, I do not oppose drafting citizens in principle. My statement was in the context of whether a draft is currently required, which it is not. In the current climate I do not think it would succeed, but rather be rejected en masse and rejecting it would be the right and proper thing to do. Not that a draft has has been tried of course, i'm just speculating in the spirit of the thread.

Were there a credible threat though, I think the lives and welfare of the citizens of the UK outstrip my individual rights and I certainly think that drafting soldiers in WWII was the correct thing to do.
 
So your argument against the Draft is, "I didn't ask to be born?"
If you want to be mindlessly simplistic and completely miss the point, yes.

If not, then the argument is that I never signed up to be a part of this society. Nor did anyone else. We shouldn't be forced to fight for it either offensively or defensively if we'd rather not. Obeying traffic laws and not murdering people is one thing. Going to war is something else entirely.
Exactly. You're willing to take full advantage of your good fortune in being born here and follow along with any easy rules that require no self sacrifice whatsoever, but when the going gets tough you'll cry about how you didn't ask for any of it. I'm not the one who is being simplistic.

You've placed that statement outside of the context of my original post, which is quite misleading of you. This isn't the 1930's, and as I stated in my post, my point is that you and I have access to a wealth of information that the everyman in the 30s did not.
I don't think it's out of context. You said your home and family would have to be under attack before you would fight; that pretty much rules out the defense of allies.

I'm sorry, I don't think I made myself very clear.

I said that most people would need the imminent threat of invasion to be motivated to fight, and immeditely followed that with my statement that I would require a threat of destruction against my home and family. I was including any credible threat to the sovereignty of my country or the lives of it's citizens, the prevention of which could very well include the defense of our allies before we are actually attacked. I included it in my head at least :lol:

So to sum up, i'm not saying I wouldn't fight, i'm saying that with the proliferation of communications the government can no longer trick me into shipping out to fight a country that was never capable of striking us in the first place.
You seem to be saying that the Draft can be used wrongly, not that it is wrong in principle.
Yeah that's right, I do not oppose drafting citizens in principle. My statement was in the context of whether a draft is currently required, which it is not. In the current climate I do not think it would succeed, but rather be rejected en masse and rejecting it would be the right and proper thing to do. Not that a draft has has been tried of course, i'm just speculating in the spirit of the thread.

Were there a credible threat though, I think the lives and welfare of the citizens of the UK outstrip my individual rights and I certainly think that drafting soldiers in WWII was the correct thing to do.
Okay, gotcha. We are in complete agreement then. :)
 
Exactly. You're willing to take full advantage of your good fortune in being born here and follow along with any easy rules that require no self sacrifice whatsoever, but when the going gets tough you'll cry about how you didn't ask for any of it. I'm not the one who is being simplistic.
No, when the going gets tough I'll choose for myself what I want to do, based on what I think is right. I don't obey laws I think are unjust, and I won't be forced into fighting for a cause I think is wrong. Nor should anyone else.
 
Were there a credible threat though, I think the lives and welfare of the citizens of the UK outstrip my individual rights and I certainly think that drafting soldiers in WWII was the correct thing to do.

Not logical. You are a citizen of the UK. Why isn't your life and welfare important? Why wasn't those young men's life and welfare important? You show great hypocrisy. You insist the lives and welfare of citizens are important, yet sacrifice those very things in their own name! Again, we see the attitude that young men don't count when it comes to matters of safety, protection and the right to life and recognition of worth. You are saying "a young man's rights can be stripped from him based on the desire to ensure the welfare of other people who are not young men, who matter more".

For the last bloody time, I AM NOT YOUR SLAVE OR PLAYTHING. Will you all kindly move into the goddamned 21st century. Stripping people selectively of their rights, valuing certain people above others- these are unacceptable. It's very frustrating so many people lack the moral fibre to see this.

I really fear for my future son and the life he'll have to lead with so many people walking around insisting that they can snap their fingers and remove his rights whenever they want, so they can tell him "here are some people who are not you. Their lives and welfare are of great importance. Go sacrifice your own life and welfare for them. Don't worry, it's okay because yours aren't important like theirs".
 
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thespeckledkiwi: Same thing in the Cold War; you're with us or against us. *sighs* America hasn't changed at all.
We won the cold war, that kind of a difference, a change -- this is where you said we didn't actual "win" or that the lifes of the people in America and Russia were the same because both of our governments (all governments) are the same.


Alidar Jorok: ... very little in common between islamic radicalism and fascism, right?
I don't believe terrorist have much interest in women's rights or the independance of the catholic religion. But a police state, extreme centralization of power, central planning of culture, of society and a quest for conformity? Yes, islamic fascists.

JuanBolio: Nor did I get to choose whether or not to be a citizen of this or any country, nor am I presented with viable alternatives ...
Not everyone on this forum is in America so I don't know where you are now. Canada take immigrants, mexico isn't that far and I understand they're pretty casual about it. Australia a real nice place. I'm actual not being sarcastic. if you over 18 or 21 of course you have options. I'm a military brat, I've lived in six countrys, in total been to twenty-two. there are one hundred and ninety sovereign nations and another seventy plus more countrys. Big surprise I love america, I don't expect it to be purfect. Again, no sarcasm, seriously if you dislike where you are, why do you stay? Australia on leave -very nice, west africa with a church mission -not so much.

JuanBolio: This is not a system which people should be forced to risk their lives to defend.
Is there a system on earth you would defend? Or is it that nothing is worth you having to risk being harmed. If you push the line far enough out in front of you, no you won't have to cross it.

JuanBolio: ... then the argument is that I never signed up to be a part of this society. Nor did anyone else.
Where is this piece of paper you think you have the option of signing? It comes down to, you are a part of this system right now because you physical present inside of it. How else do you want it to be?
JuanBolio: Nor did anyone else.
I live in seattle, a major port of entry for immigrants, so much for that statement!


Differences -- when I say america it's. I. me.us.we -- for all of you it's them. the government. the system


T'Girl
 
With respect, you have fewer freedoms than I. But ones you do possess came from where? Police yes, most came from soldiers, many of whom were drafted and gave their lifes - for you.

No. Soldiers did not give their lives for me. They gave their lives because they were conditioned and indoctrinated into believing they had a duty to do so. If I were alive and my present age at the time, I would have been drafted. So no-one died "for me" because I am nothing but further potential war material in the eyes of those behind the draft. My protection and freedom was motivating no-one, because people like me were having their protection and freedom stripped from them systematically. This "they died for you" nonsense must stop- I have no blood on my hands. If those soldiers died for me, then every enemy soldier they killed was killed for me, every 12-year old boy shot in the assault on Berlin in WWII was killed for me. No. Not so.

... and the subjugation of people like myself .
I can understand your fear, I'm at a large university myself, and it feels very safe here. Standing in front of others, protecting them could easily result in you being harmed. But the ones behind you would at the same time be safer by your deeds.

You don't get it do you? I DO NOT WISH TO ACCEPT SUBJUGATION. You are saying "oh, you should be prepared to, to protect others". No. My life and safety are just as precious as theirs. Now you're from a military family, so why isn't my protection important? I thought soldiers protected the people, at least that's what those like you claim. So why am I not part of that being protected?

The individual must serve the whole and the whole must serve the individual.
No apologies, I'm not a socialist.

And to be fair, there is probably much about your culture I don't understand either. Our government is only a small part of who we are, for every fantastically rich individual, there are many hundreds of the rest of us. We are the country and the government. And from your post, it seems we are also very different from you.

Blindly nationalistic, convinced of your superiority and with a militiaristic attitude that views the world as a mass of nations to be bettered through your interaction and imposition, plus your own sons as a big resource for war? You're not different. You are us, as we were 100 years ago.

If "the individual serves the whole and the whole the individual" is not the "American way" then fine, but in that case you are not a free country. Why is it Americans make such a big fuss of their supposed liberties yet any conversation about service to the state devolves into them proclaiming SERVE THE STATE! YOUR OWN RIGHTS MEAN LITTLE! A DRAFT, A DRAFT, THE DRUMS OF WAR! All this talk about freedom- the nation doth protest too much....

Or at least some of its inhabitants do. I've had many conversations, both across the internet and face-to-face, with American citizens who have had a very different take on their experience within their nation from the "land of the free" propaganda we see so often. I put more faith in these people's observations than those from, no offense, an individual clearly indoctrinated into that propaganda.

As for the USA supposedly spreading freedom across the globe, you're obviously not familiar with any of those nations where democracy was overturned or blocked by American operations designed to prop up existing tyrants to keep your profit margin intact. That is what has been happening across the 20th century, in Central America in particular. You probably aren't taught about those incidents and those operations, but outside the USA it's common knowledge.
 
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Well, given that one person here equates terrorists to "freedom fighters" it's not hard to draw the conclusion that some people at least feel the USA has it coming to it.
Some people DID. That's why we were attacked. Plenty more people do today, thanks largely to our often senseless retaliatory actions.

Freedom isn't free sir.
America hasn't been in a war that had a damn thing to do with American "freedoms" since 1945, if then. Perhaps 1865.

So then you are okay with the terrorism inflicted on the USA on 9-11? After all, some people had it coming to them.

And I beg to differ on your last point as well. We are morally bound to spread freedom across the globe, and to do so certainly helps us maintain ours.

America has not been engaged in "spreading freedom". Does no-one in the USA study their own history? The 20th century is full of cases where the USA has propped up tyrannts, blocked, undercut and in a few cases actively reversed democratic trends and liberty in poorer countries in order to protect its economic interests. This "we spread freedom" propaganda is the exact sort of thinking that my people used to justify our conquest and exploitation of others during the age of empire. I would have hoped you could learn from our mistakes.
 
Some people DID. That's why we were attacked. Plenty more people do today, thanks largely to our often senseless retaliatory actions.

America hasn't been in a war that had a damn thing to do with American "freedoms" since 1945, if then. Perhaps 1865.

So then you are okay with the terrorism inflicted on the USA on 9-11? After all, some people had it coming to them.

And I beg to differ on your last point as well. We are morally bound to spread freedom across the globe, and to do so certainly helps us maintain ours.

America has not been engaged in "spreading freedom". Does no-one in the USA study their own history? The 20th century is full of cases where the USA has propped up tyrannts, blocked, undercut and in a few cases actively reversed democratic trends and liberty in poorer countries in order to protect its economic interests. This "we spread freedom" propaganda is the exact sort of thinking that my people used to justify our conquest and exploitation of others during the age of empire. I would have hoped you could learn from our mistakes.

Where are you from again?
 
thespeckledkiwi: Same thing in the Cold War; you're with us or against us. *sighs* America hasn't changed at all.
We won the cold war, that kind of a difference, a change -- this is where you said we didn't actual "win" or that the lifes of the people in America and Russia were the same because both of our governments (all governments) are the same.

How would you define won? Yes, we freed Eastern Europe. We also destroyed any chance of a good relationship with Iran, weakened our ties to Europe, weakened our ties to Turkey (someone who felt threatened by the Soviet Union, so they should've been a natural ally), created dissatisfaction in Africa and South America, lost Vietnam to communism after a 10 year way that still plagues the American psyche, and are still facing a stalemate in Korea that is unlikely to chance. We also directly contributed to the rise of Osama bin Laden and are dealing with a Russia that is just as credible a threat today as they were 20 years ago.

Alidar Jorok: ... very little in common between islamic radicalism and fascism, right?
I don't believe terrorist have much interest in women's rights or the independance of the catholic religion. But a police state, extreme centralization of power, central planning of culture, of society and a quest for conformity? Yes, islamic fascists.

A. That's a very poor definition of fascism and, B. even with that, it doesn't really fit islamic fundamentalism as well as you think. For staters, fascism was all about the superiority of the state. It was a belief that war was a natural state and that national pride justified domination over other peoples. It was corporatist, believing in a cooperation of business and the state that would lead to superior state power no matter the cost to the people living in the state. Central planning of culture and society fits anything. That's the definition of the BBC and PBS.

Islamic radicalism is nationalistic and it's combative, but that's about it. For starters, it's not about any state as we know it, but more about Pan-Islamisicm. It's momentum actually has more of a Bolshevik spirit than a fascist spirit. Basically, in many ways, it appealed to people who used to use communism as an anti-west imperialism, but doesn't have the atheism associated with it. The goal of many is to restore islamic law and, generally, to remove western influence, but specific goals vary. Some want to restore the Caliphate, others simply want local law to be islamic. Either way, this means certain parts of the population would be oppressed, but it isn't technically nationalistic and it certainly isn't fascist.
 
America has not been engaged in "spreading freedom". Does no-one in the USA study their own history? The 20th century is full of cases where the USA has propped up tyrannts, blocked, undercut and in a few cases actively reversed democratic trends and liberty in poorer countries in order to protect its economic interests. This "we spread freedom" propaganda is the exact sort of thinking that my people used to justify our conquest and exploitation of others during the age of empire. I would have hoped you could learn from our mistakes.

Where are you from again?

Gee, let me think. I mean it's SO hard to work it out from what he said.
 
Also, if TLS has a problem because it was said by a non-American, I'll back up fully what he said.
 
So then you are okay with the terrorism inflicted on the USA on 9-11? After all, some people had it coming to them.

And I beg to differ on your last point as well. We are morally bound to spread freedom across the globe, and to do so certainly helps us maintain ours.

America has not been engaged in "spreading freedom". Does no-one in the USA study their own history? The 20th century is full of cases where the USA has propped up tyrannts, blocked, undercut and in a few cases actively reversed democratic trends and liberty in poorer countries in order to protect its economic interests. This "we spread freedom" propaganda is the exact sort of thinking that my people used to justify our conquest and exploitation of others during the age of empire. I would have hoped you could learn from our mistakes.

Where are you from again?

The UK. My comments about "my people" and "our mistakes" were in reference to the British Empire and its policies of interference, exploitation and conquest.

The American colonies fought against us for their freedom, and won. A great day for liberty. It's very sad to see the USA having thrown so much of that away and having falllen into similar patterns of thinking.

I do apologise if I'm coming across too strongly, but this nationalistic, prideful, we're-morally-superior-to-other-nations, our-young-men-are-a-resource-of-war-and-should-be-prepared-to-do-their-patriotic-duty mindset is the exact type of thinking that fueled the empire, as well as the constant warfare on the European continent and its nations' conquered territories. I won't see it happen again, and I oppose such thinking in my own people, in Americans, Russians, anyone. Such thinking is the antithesis of freedom, just as drafts don't protect freedom, they detract from it.
 
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America has not been engaged in "spreading freedom". Does no-one in the USA study their own history? The 20th century is full of cases where the USA has propped up tyrannts, blocked, undercut and in a few cases actively reversed democratic trends and liberty in poorer countries in order to protect its economic interests. This "we spread freedom" propaganda is the exact sort of thinking that my people used to justify our conquest and exploitation of others during the age of empire. I would have hoped you could learn from our mistakes.

Where are you from again?

The UK. My comments about "my people" and "our mistakes" were in reference to the British Empire and its policies of interference, exploitation and conquest.

The American colonies fought against us for their freedom, and won. A great day for liberty. It's very sad to see the USA having thrown so much of that away and having falllen into similar patterns of thinking.

I do apologise if I'm coming across too strongly, but this nationalistic, prideful, we're-morally-superior-to-other-nations, our-young-men-are-a-resource-of-war-and-should-be-prepared-to-do-their-patriotic-duty mindset is the exact type of thinking that fueled the empire, as well as the constant warfare on the European continent and its nations' conquered territories. I won't see it happen again, and I oppose such thinking in my own people, in Americans, Russians, anyone. Such thinking is the antithesis of freedom, just as drafts don't protect freedom, they detract from it.

Thanks. You make some good points and I wasn't sure where you were from exactly.

And I am not a proponent of peacetime drafts. During times of war when it may become necessary I am. However, perhaps we should allow those who don't adhere to defending our country in times of need the opportunity to take up residence elsewhere instead of holding them to it.
 
The UK. My comments about "my people" and "our mistakes" were in reference to the British Empire and its policies of interference, exploitation and conquest.

The American colonies fought against us for their freedom, and won. A great day for liberty. It's very sad to see the USA having thrown so much of that away and having falllen into similar patterns of thinking.

I do apologise if I'm coming across too strongly, but this nationalistic, prideful, we're-morally-superior-to-other-nations, our-young-men-are-a-resource-of-war-and-should-be-prepared-to-do-their-patriotic-duty mindset is the exact type of thinking that fueled the empire, as well as the constant warfare on the European continent and its nations' conquered territories. I won't see it happen again, and I oppose such thinking in my own people, in Americans, Russians, anyone. Such thinking is the antithesis of freedom, just as drafts don't protect freedom, they detract from it.

I half agree, but very well put :) I might steal that if the topic ever comes up offline ;)

However, perhaps we should allow those who don't adhere to defending our country in times of need the opportunity to take up residence elsewhere instead of holding them to it.

Isn't that a nice way of saying "If you don't like it, frak off"?
 
The UK. My comments about "my people" and "our mistakes" were in reference to the British Empire and its policies of interference, exploitation and conquest.

The American colonies fought against us for their freedom, and won. A great day for liberty. It's very sad to see the USA having thrown so much of that away and having falllen into similar patterns of thinking.

I do apologise if I'm coming across too strongly, but this nationalistic, prideful, we're-morally-superior-to-other-nations, our-young-men-are-a-resource-of-war-and-should-be-prepared-to-do-their-patriotic-duty mindset is the exact type of thinking that fueled the empire, as well as the constant warfare on the European continent and its nations' conquered territories. I won't see it happen again, and I oppose such thinking in my own people, in Americans, Russians, anyone. Such thinking is the antithesis of freedom, just as drafts don't protect freedom, they detract from it.

I half agree, but very well put :) I might steal that if the topic ever comes up offline ;)

However, perhaps we should allow those who don't adhere to defending our country in times of need the opportunity to take up residence elsewhere instead of holding them to it.

Isn't that a nice way of saying "If you don't like it, frak off"?

;)
 
Interestingly enough, despite the idea that the draft subjugates or enslaves the people to the state (involuntary servitude), the draft has historically been the great unifier of states, making people of all classes and regions part of the same citizenship (granted, this is more towards establishing a cohesive nation-state, but democracy and nationalism went together during the first half of the 19th century when this phenomena began). A voluntary force doesn't do that because some regions or classes are invariably more attracted to armed service than others.

Of course, a draft has to be fair and impartial. The American Civil War had a draft that allowed the rich to buy a replacement and Vietnam had some problems with people entering into positions that were either exempt from the draft or wouldn't serve overseas.
 
Interestingly enough, despite the idea that the draft subjugates or enslaves the people to the state (involuntary servitude), the draft has historically been the great unifier of states, making people of all classes and regions part of the same citizenship (granted, this is more towards establishing a cohesive nation-state, but democracy and nationalism went together during the first half of the 19th century when this phenomena began). A voluntary force doesn't do that because some regions or classes are invariably more attracted to armed service than others.

Of course, a draft has to be fair and impartial. The American Civil War had a draft that allowed the rich to buy a replacement and Vietnam had some problems with people entering into positions that were either exempt from the draft or wouldn't serve overseas.

Please don't overlook the biggest issue- that it applies to members of one sex only.

Also,drafts are not about unification of equals. Unification of equals is voluntary and symbiotic. Drafts are about saying "join with us or be punished".

The simple truth is that we're dealing with an attitude that says young male humans have some sort of natural obligation to pick up weapons, fight, suffer and die on behalf of other people and the goals of the powerful, who, lest we forget, always have and always do treat the majority of young men as a disposable resource. We are also dealing with an attitude that encourages the idea that young men should fight to preserve the very nations which enforce such things upon them and their future sons. This thinking is responsble for not only the suffering of millions of young men and boys throughout history but for the near-continuous warfare among human communities for millennia. Seeing your nation's young men and boys as a resource for your wars leads naturally into war. Defining young men in terms of utilities of war leads naturally into atrocities including full-on slaughter of any and all adolescent and young adult males in regions consumed by war (a common occurrance). It leads to tension and conflict between competing nations, whose citizens are trained to see their neighbours as threats. Your young men are told they have to enlist and defend against the threat of their young men, who are all lined up with weapons. Your sons become nothing more than shields and sandbags between nations whose governments are perfectly willing to sacrifice any of them for their own goals, and whose petty territorial or ideological disputes threaten to drag these nations into destructive conflict. If you see your sons in terms of "oh look, soldiers here", you will always have war. You must learn to separate the idea of a young male from that of a potential solidier. This is something no nation, or organizations like the UN, have yet been able to do, as it goes against millennia of human social conditioning. But it must be done. You must learn to look at me and see a person, unique and precious, not a piece of war material.

As for unifying a state, military service unifies it against another state. That's what armies are for. Peacekeeping law-enforcement agencies or disaster-response agencies are something different. An army stands opposed to someone else. If America has a draft, you signal to the world, "we are a warlike nation. Our sons, in our own eyes, are nothing but a resource for war". The nations you have conflicts with will not disagree with you. They will say "America's young men are a resource for war", and they will convince all their people to see their own young men in similar terms to stand opposed to the threat America poses. It is high time for you to step back from war, to signify that your sons are not a resource to be used and sacrificed.

Drafts will not bring peace, they will not bring security, they only ever fuel conflicts, and place ALL young men and boys in the position of being "legitimate targets" for the enemy (be in no doubt, they will be automatically treated as such by most nations), and playthings for their own nation.
 
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America has not been engaged in "spreading freedom". Does no-one in the USA study their own history? The 20th century is full of cases where the USA has propped up tyrannts, blocked, undercut and in a few cases actively reversed democratic trends and liberty in poorer countries in order to protect its economic interests. This "we spread freedom" propaganda is the exact sort of thinking that my people used to justify our conquest and exploitation of others during the age of empire. I would have hoped you could learn from our mistakes.

Where are you from again?

The UK. My comments about "my people" and "our mistakes" were in reference to the British Empire and its policies of interference, exploitation and conquest.

The American colonies fought against us for their freedom, and won. A great day for liberty. It's very sad to see the USA having thrown so much of that away and having falllen into similar patterns of thinking.

I do apologise if I'm coming across too strongly, but this nationalistic, prideful, we're-morally-superior-to-other-nations, our-young-men-are-a-resource-of-war-and-should-be-prepared-to-do-their-patriotic-duty mindset is the exact type of thinking that fueled the empire, as well as the constant warfare on the European continent and its nations' conquered territories. I won't see it happen again, and I oppose such thinking in my own people, in Americans, Russians, anyone. Such thinking is the antithesis of freedom, just as drafts don't protect freedom, they detract from it.



Blah blah blah. You know what would've been even worse than all that hysterical bollocks you've been spouting? LETTING THE NAZI'S WIN :rolleyes:
 
Blah blah blah. You know what would've been even worse than all that hysterical bollocks you've been spouting? LETTING THE NAZI'S WIN :rolleyes:

I'm not going to reproduce my arguments about the second world war and its many contributors' ideologies, because you clearly wouldn't understand.

My views are not "hysterical bollocks". If they're good enough for leading scholars at Cambridge University- with whom I have discussed a great amount of the material and ideology I've posted in this thread, and who have hailed me as one of their leading students- then the ignorant bleating of someone such as yourself means little. Like it nor not, the opinions of myself and those who think like me are a prominent part of the debate that will determine the future of our people. If you only hear "blah-blah-blah", you should probably avoid participation in threads such as this and stick to the ooh-ing and aah-ing over isopods, or topics like that. People like me do not have the luxury of thinking we can simply sit back, let things continue as they always have and let existing ideologies remain unchallenged. It is the duty of those with the capacity to do so to question, to examine, to reconsider and to aid their people in coming to new means of thinking about and relating to themselves and their world. I take my duty to my people very seriously, and I do not respond well to people who take it lightly.

I mean, do you honestly think that I haven't encountered "drafts were necessary because the alternative was letting Nazis win and that's bad" arguments before? Taken them into consideration? If you really have anything worthwhile to contribute- which I doubt- please post an actual argument for me to examine.

If not, I have an idea. I'm a leading member of society. I propose you be immediately pressed into my service to defend me and all I stand for against external threats. Your freedom means nothing, you understand, it is instead your duty and obligation to serve in my defense. Do not resist, or you will be punished. Here's your uniform marking you as a possession of mine. Here is your weapon. Turn it against me, that is treason. I will have you shot. Turn it on my enemies instead, as and when I dictate. Rest assured, heroic serviceman, I honour your sacrifice as you die keeping me, precious as I am, safe and secure. Rest in peace, OptimusPete. You will be remembered as a hero.
 
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