Preach!
Is (guess who) a (insert something) Sue? (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Spot261
- Start date
Preach!
Doesn't change the fact that it is a massive leap of faith in terms of the story.
No different than Rey, a person who has to live by her instincts in order to survive.
Also this.
i am just saying he had faith in the moment he took the shot. I mean people that write these movies -- the good writers usually know their audience a little bit. Like in Back to the Future, they could have had Marty.. realistically wand reasonably in his dillemma.. they could have had him sulking in a fetal position at night at Doc's place panicking about his own existence. But that was not the type of film they were making.. they were making a cool fish out of water comedy with a dash of sci fi and a lot of wit, so the parts of the story they chose to show reflect what they were trying to so. similarly they could have had Luke dwell in the darkness but instead they wanted to recreate the old pulp sci fi serials and show a guy that was on his first adventure and probably didn't even realize how dangerous a situation he was in because he was so eager for adventure. This is addressed in the next film when Dak is basically what Luke was.. a guy that feels that he can take on the whole empire himself.. but even by that point in the film Luke knew that it wasn'; so simple , having been nearly killed, and frostbitten, rescued and now knowing what they were up against .
The thing I most appreciate about the original Star Wars.. is that it knows exactly what kind of film it is.. and doesn't let itself become bogged down .. doesn't look at any of the material from a cynical POV.
I get what you're saying. What I'm saying is that most of us just accept ANH for what it is, despite that. But you're continually claiming all of this stuff about verisimilitude, which means the appearance of being real. Dude, there is nothing real about that. And there's nothing cynical about believing that in reality, people would crumble if those events happened to them. We just accept it because the story would stop if we didn't. And that's fine. The point I'm making is: People accept what happened as much to Rey as it did to Luke because the story would stop if you didn't. There's nothing more than that. I'm not lessening ANH. I understand what both films are trying to do. I'm just saying that the verisimilitude you claim to cherish, at least for me, isn't there. This is a science fantasy saga. And I'm okay with the level of suspended belief I have to apply in order to enjoy it. That's all I'm saying.
That ship has long sailed, and under the guidance of Lucas no less. And you noted it well, that Luke had grown from wide eyed to a little more introspective and cautious. Characters grow and change and become more. They go through challenges and pain, depression and difficulty.
Despite wanting to recreate old serials, Lucas also wanted a very lived in universe, with characters who were highly believable, and relatable. Guess what? I relate very strongly to Luke in TLJ. That's not a weakness or a failing of the film or giving in to cynicism. That is a strength of a character for me to connect with in a powerful way.
One simply cannot remain on the adventure high forever. And Luke's journey is the foundational mythic arc that has been present in tales like "Morte de Arthur," "Robin Hood" as well as Greek heroes like Achilles and Odysseus.
Star Wars is no longer just the pulp serials. It has grown to far more.
No sarcasm or irony.. ty for the kind words.
Right. A great shot. One in a million. Could he have done it again right after? Was that the only exhibition of the Force Luke displayed in Episode IV?
At the start of Episode V, Luke has trouble moving a small lightsaber from a snow bank to his hand. He puts a tremendous amount of effort into the feat and it's noticeable.
Rey on the other hand... seems to call upon the Force multiple times in Episode VII and even does the manipulating weak minds Jedi trick without ever seeming to have encountered a Force user at all and has had absolutely no training. Oh, and let's not forget Luke's lightsaber calling to her like she's something special.
I think we are agreeing on the point (but disagreeing with most of the other people here).
I think he was able to use the Force a bit.. again the force was mainly using him, when he deflected the shots from the remote.
it's my favorite film and how the Force was used to tell a story was perfect. throughout the film we get so much imagery of how large scale the empire.. particularly the Death Star is, yet Vader knew that it was nothing compared to the Force and he was right.
It was a lucky shot, but it was still just a shot, regardless of whether there were five people on the Death Star or five thousand. I hate when people use the shot Luke took as a way to call him a mary sue. It's the whole point of the film.
He is what he is.
Exactly. Observing that Luke did something pretty much impossible or calling him a wish fulfillment character/Mary Sue doesn't somehow make the film less enjoyable. It simply establishes what the world of SW is like and about in terms of storytelling. And Rey fits right in to that world building, just like Luke.
I'd prefer the term 'Mary Sue' just be dropped entirely. It really doesn't do the fanbase any good to constantly be in these pissing matched instead of celebrating how great the franchise is.
Fair enough. I think wish fulfillment/"everyman/woman/person" type character is perhaps a better term. A blank slate with which the audience can identify with and engage with.
But if Rey had been the one making that shot it'd be okay to call her a Mary Sue?
REy is not even a character.. she's an agenda playing out on screen
So then what's the agenda?
#asking4friend
#asking4friend
Just when the discussion was moving in a semi-reasonable direction...we go back to the conspiracy theory garbage. Rey is like Luke is like Anakin. The only difference is in the individual audience member's minds.
Ni the only real difference was that Luke had challenges that he wasn't flawless.. that he was a typical hero. Rey is flawless.. and was KK's agenda playing out on screen.