Is Generations REALLY That Bad???

[plynch]

I rewatched it last night and liked it ok. The Data stuff is pretty weak and/ or cringeworthy, even (lifeforms, etc.).

I still don't get what the nexus is. Maybe that's ok.

Here's one I haven't seen addressed. Why is Picard's family so Victorian-British? Looks like Dickens, but with lights on the tree and a lamp on in the living room. No answer, I suppose, but it seemed weird.

 

[MasuPu'a]

Here's one I haven't seen addressed. Why is Picard's family so Victorian-British? Looks like Dickens, but with lights on the tree and a lamp on in the living room. No answer, I suppose, but it seemed weird.

I don't know...then again I didn't quite get why Picard was French, yet spoke with a British accent.

 

[sonak]

Here's one I haven't seen addressed. Why is Picard's family so Victorian-British? Looks like Dickens, but with lights on the tree and a lamp on in the living room. No answer, I suppose, but it seemed weird.

I don't know...then again I didn't quite get why Picard was French, yet spoke with a British accent.

good question. Same confusion here. Why not just re-name the character and make him British?

 

[plynch]

Careful. I opened up a can on myself by posing that question in a different thread. MANY people said a French guy could learn English in Britain.

I agree. I just thought it seemed odd, as do you, to cast a "French" character with a British-accented character. trek stereotypes are not usually at cross purposes.

Even aside from the British ness of his family -- why so Victorian? I guess because that's how the production designer liked it.

 

[CaptainMatt]

He liked Berman and actually wanted him to take over. Berman has made many mistakes but he was a fine grail-keeper who always asked "what would Gene have thought about this?".

Berman might have had Gene's blessing in the beginning, but I cannot help but wonder what he would have thought had he lived to see those choices Berman made. Berman may have been great at asking "what would have Gene done" but that doesn't mean he did everything the way Gene would have liked.

 

[Broccoli]

I'm starting to think that a lot of the Generations hate comes from TOS fans who dislike TNG. I think these people are searching for a way to bash TNG without it seeming unfair, and so they take something like the death of Kirk (which was REALLY poorly executed), blow it completely out of proportion, and use it to bash the entire film. It's completely unfair, and it tarnishes the reputation of an otherwise good film.

I grew up watching TNG, and a lot of the problems I had with Generations are because of that. The beloved characters of the show were twisted into unrecognizable jokes; such as seeing Picard, the man who hated kids and couldn't understand why Starfleet had given him a ship full of children, suddenly weeping because he didn't have a family. Data's quest to become human was a favorite character arc of the show, Generations turned it into an unending, torturous gag of Data being 'funny.'

T

To be fair, Picard had already changed in STNG over the seasons with kids, he was not the same uncomfortable Picard from season 1. Plus, he loved his nephew and probably could see a future explorer in him. I don't have a problem with that in the story.

Right. While Picard might have been uncomfortable around kids, the fact is that his remaining family was now dead. That kinda has a way to make one reexamine their life, which Picard was clearly doing.

 

[horatio83]

Berman might have had Gene's blessing in the beginning, but I cannot help but wonder what he would have thought had he lived to see those choices Berman made. Berman may have been great at asking "what would have Gene done" but that doesn't mean he did everything the way Gene would have liked.

He knew Roddenberry, Roddenberry put him on the throne and Berman always cared about sticking close to Roddenberry's vision. What more can you ask of him?
It is no coincidence that the post-TNG series Berman was least involved in was also the least-Roddenberryian one.

If Berman made any mistake it was to stick to close to Roddenberryianism, to not date as much as Meyer or Behr. When he loosened up a bit in ENT and dared to ignore some Roddenberry principles his stuff became good.

 

[Noname Given]

I'm starting to think that a lot of the Generations hate comes from TOS fans who dislike TNG. I think these people are searching for a way to bash TNG without it seeming unfair, and so they take something like the death of Kirk (which was REALLY poorly executed), blow it completely out of proportion, and use it to bash the entire film. It's completely unfair, and it tarnishes the reputation of an otherwise good film.

As a TOS fan, I take a bit of an exception to this. I dislike Generations because it was POORLY written.

Examples:

- They make a BIG deal about Picard beiing emotionally distraught over teh death of his nephew.

- Yet, once IN the Nexus and understanding he can go ANYWHERE in space/time - they don't even have a scene where he contemplates saving his nephew and stopping Soran by other means. Once he there it's 'by the numbers' of 'go get Kirk - go stop Soran just minutes before the missle fires.

^^^^^
Again (IMO) it's bad writing and a disservice to the character of Picard that such action wouldn't even be considered and would have made for a powerful scene with the character deciding not to do it (for whatever reason).

Next:

- Guinan says "Once you're there, you'll never want to leave..."; and even she, with centuries of life experience; was upset at being pulled out; and given the chance woulkd have gone back.

- YET - once Picard is there; he meets 'Phantom Guinan' and has no issues moving away from his dream; and further - neither he nor Kirk seem to have a lot of issues just 'rifding out' of the whole Nexus.

^^^
Again, BAD (and pat) writing on the author's parts - if you're going to make up a new anomoly; DON'T give it characteristics that play no real role in challenging the characters.

The above examples are why I dislike and find Generations a BAD film. It has nothing to do with the fact I like TOS better than TNG.

And IMO - and as aside I very much enjoyued Fist Contact; and place it in the same league with STII:TWoK (IE I'll definitely7 make time to watch either when I catch one.)

 

[Broccoli]

Fist Contact? Sound's kinky.

 

[MasuPu'a]

Fist Contact? Sound's kinky.

I just imagined Zapp Brannigan saying this.

 

[AdmiralScreed]

It's difficult for me to say this, but a couple days ago I rewatched Generations for the first time in about one year, and it was no where near as enjoyable as I had remembered. As some other folks in this thread have already commented, it felt to me like Generations was a series of clips strewn together, but without much of a relation to one another. The movie felt very unfocused.

Prior to my rewatch I would have given the movie a 7/10 (great!), but now I feel I can only give it a 4/10 (okay). What a shame. And to think I really used to like this movie.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Careful. I opened up a can on myself by posing that question in a different thread. MANY people said a French guy could learn English in Britain.

I agree. I just thought it seemed odd, as do you, to cast a "French" character with a British-accented character. trek stereotypes are not usually at cross purposes.

Even aside from the British ness of his family -- why so Victorian? I guess because that's how the production designer liked it.

The script calls it a "French Living Room" I don't know enough about the styles of the era to tell if its looks French or British. I assume that some of the styles would be similar in that era. One of the kids calls Picard "papa". Which sounds more French/Continental than British.

 

[CaptainMatt]

I can watch it if I have to, but the Next Gen half is long and arduous and things kind of come to a standstill until Kirk shows up again.

 

[BillJ]

I think it's the best of the Next Gen movies.

Though why didn't Riker and Worf do a site to site transport to the array when the star went nova?

 

[BillJ]

It always hurts to watch the Enterprise go down in that film.

 

[Dukhat]

It always hurts to watch the Enterprise go down in that film.

I hear you, man. But what makes it a hundred times worse is when you compare the destruction of the Ent-D to the destruction of the original Enterprise in TSFS, and you realize just how silly the circumstances behind the "D's" destruction was.

Not to mention the fact that all the trailer commercials for Generations totally ruined the surprise by showing the ship blowing up

 

[horatio83]

Which silly circumstances? In TSFS as well as GEN a bunch of Klingon renegades with old BoPs are responsible for the destruction of the ship. The destruction of the original Enterprise is only better because Kirk sacrifices her.

 

[Deckerd]

We're just watching it. I was just commenting that that core story is rather good.

 

[Deckerd]

The destruction of the Enterprise was for cinematic impact and it was spectacular. The producers didn't hear the screaming of hundreds thousands of Trek fans dying inside.

 

[BillJ]

Which silly circumstances? In TSFS as well as GEN a bunch of Klingon renegades with old BoPs are responsible for the destruction of the ship. The destruction of the original Enterprise is only better because Kirk sacrifices her.

The destruction of the Enterprise was because Kruge knocked out the automation system with a lucky shot. Kirk didn't have the manpower aboard to control her without the automation system. He had five people trying to control a vessel normally crewed by 400.