Is a Vegetarian or Vegan Diet Healthy?

[StarryEyed]

There were a few drive-by posts in the Vegan Recipes thread that insinuated vegetarianism/veganism is not healthy. The mods didn't want that thread to devolve into a vegetarianism/veganism/anti-vegetarianism/veganism debate so I started this one to divert fire. If anybody wants to discuss the subject, this is the thread.

 

[RoJoHen]

I could never be a vegetarian because I love meat too much, but I don't think the diet is necessarily unhealthy as long as you are still finding good sources of protein and fat.

 

[StarryEyed]

I could never be a vegetarian because I love meat too much, but I don't think the diet is necessarily unhealthy as long as you are still finding good sources of protein and fat.

Fat is pretty hard to avoid - almost impossible.

Protein is the great myth. We do not directly get protein from our diet - except for the cannibals among us. Protein from a cow, pig, chicken or fish is not directly usable by the human body. Our body builds human protein from amino acids. When you eat any kind of flesh food, your body breaks that foreign protein down into its component amino acids and reassembles it into human protein. The process is energy-intensive which is why you feel sleepy after a heavy meal. Now here's the rub: those same amino acids are available from vegetable sources without the associated toxins in meat or the difficulty involved in breaking it down to its component amino acids.

It's possible that a vegan or vegetarian will not get all the necessary amino acids for protein-building in their diet but it is very unlikely.

Where do cows, gorillas and elephants get their protein from - from the amino acids in the vegetation they eat!

 

[CorporalClegg]

All things being equal, than a normal omnivorous diet as overall more proper and beneficial to the human body.

However, these days things aren't equal and the food one eats as a vegan is simply more healthful--not because the food itself is better in a broad sense, but because the meat one buys at the market isn't very "pure" (for lack of a better term). The animals they come from usually are fed poor diets and are injected with various drugs and steroids.

Likewise with fish. At a basic level, fish is about as a "good-for-you" food as there is. However, the oceans are so full of toxins and pollutants that the fish absorb them and pass them on to those that eat the fish. It's become so bad that even farm-raised fish haven't been able to escape the problem.

On the other hand, it's generally easier to control the poisons put into fruits, veggies, etc. Even the herbicides and pesticides use on most corporate farms aren't (in general) as poisonous as the stuff they give the cows.

So really, there is no right answer to your question and it's really a matte of perspective.

However, the way I look at it is, humans are, by design, omnivores. And there's no reason to stop. (I know I won't.) I tied the vegan thing for awhile and gave up after about six months. I just like food too much. That doesn't mean I don't try and eat healthy.

And the way I see it is, there are so many "poisons" out there that it would be impossible to avoid them all. It's better to do why you like and try and be responsible about it. I don't smoke or do drugs and a vary rarely drink. So if I feel entitled to a big fat greasy stake now and then, all the more power to me!

 

[StarryEyed]

However, the way I look at it is, humans are, by design, omnivores.

There is an evolutionary advantage to be able to survive on a wide variety of foods. Survivability is not the same as maximum health, however. With the exception of people with rare conditions, a strictly vegetarian diet will always be more healthful than one that includes meat. This is because there are a lot of toxins in meat (most of them natural). Pure carnivores like felines have livers far-superior to ours to deal with those toxins but even those animals are short-lived compared to vegetable and fruit eaters.

 

[RoJoHen]

I guess it also depends on how you define "healthy." I view my diet through the eyes of a bodybuilder who is constantly trying to gain muscle mass. Consuming meat is a far easier way to accomplish this goal than consuming fruits and vegetables, though both are obviously important. I couldn't gain the same muscle mass as a vegetarian without spending obnoxious amounts of money on protein and amino acid supplements.

That said, being a vegetarian is certainly a healthy lifestyle choice as long as you do it properly. I had some friends who tried to stop eating meat, but they didn't know what they were doing. All they were doing was eating pasta all day.

 

[The Boy Who Cried Worf]

I am a low-carber so I eat a lot of meat. I feel it is right and it works for me. I have nothing against vegans or vegetarians though. If they like it and it works for them that's all that matters. I think with those diets you have to be especially careful to eat natural though and avoid things like enriched flour which is empty carbs. I also think a lot of some fruits and especially juice is not that great for you. The only problem I have with vegans is when they try and make their pets vegans. They're related to lions and wolves, give them some flesh for god's sake!

 

[Kestra]

If it's done properly, it's certainly healthy.

 

[thestrangequark]

It depends on the diet, of course. A meat eater who chooses lean meats in small portions along with plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables and who avoids a lot of processed foods is eating a far healthier diet than, for example, the morbidly obese vegan I roomed with at university whose diet consisted of a whole loaf of bread at many meals, vegan mayonnaise, boxes upon boxes of vegan cookies, and really frightening meat substitutes.

Both my sisters are vegan, and my older sister is raising my nephew vegan. He's as healthy and happy and roly-poly as they come.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I could never be a vegetarian because I love meat too much, but I don't think the diet is necessarily unhealthy as long as you are still finding good sources of protein and fat.

Agreed.

Vegetarian/vegan diets may be *healthy*, but to me they are certainly not *appealing*.

 

[StarryEyed]

The only problem I have with vegans is when they try and make their pets vegans. They're related to lions and wolves, give them some flesh for god's sake!

Yes, that is pure idiocy and abuse. Human physiology is conducive to a vegan diet but that of a feline or canine is not.

 

[Kestra]

really frightening meat substitutes

This sounds terrifying.

 

[B.J.]

When my wife got pregnant with each of our three kids, every single time the doctors asked her if she was a vegetarian. The reason being that if she was (she isn't), they would have to put her on a strict diet of pills and vitamin supplements. I don't think it mattered how well a woman thought they were getting all their necessary intake, if they were vegetarian, they went on the plan. These were different doctors in different parts of the country each time, so it's not just one doctor's opinion, and it was about 4 years apart each time. According to my wife, that's good enough for her to never even think about going down the vegetarian path.

 

[Capn Flukie]

I view my diet through the eyes of a bodybuilder who is constantly trying to gain muscle mass. Consuming meat is a far easier way to accomplish this goal than consuming fruits and vegetables,

Just chug down a whole can of spinach.

*wonders if this is worthy of the obscure references thread*

 

[gturner]

When my wife got pregnant with each of our three kids, every single time the doctors asked her if she was a vegetarian. The reason being that if she was (she isn't), they would have to put her on a strict diet of pills and vitamin supplements. I don't think it mattered how well a woman thought they were getting all their necessary intake, if they were vegetarian, they went on the plan. These were different doctors in different parts of the country each time, so it's not just one doctor's opinion, and it was about 4 years apart each time. According to my wife, that's good enough for her to never even think about going down the vegetarian path.

I've read that the early stone tools and associated animal remains found in the Olduvai Gorge in Africa seem to indicate that marrow from long femur bones was an essential part of a pregnant woman's diet, since it is rich in fats and protein. It also apparently stays edible for months inside the bones, even on the savannah, and the top predators don't have teeth and jaws strong enough to break open the femurs, so the bones are ripe for scavenging. Bone marrow is rarely eaten in the US but is quite popular in many other places.

 

[thestrangequark]

When my wife got pregnant with each of our three kids, every single time the doctors asked her if she was a vegetarian. The reason being that if she was (she isn't), they would have to put her on a strict diet of pills and vitamin supplements. I don't think it mattered how well a woman thought they were getting all their necessary intake, if they were vegetarian, they went on the plan. These were different doctors in different parts of the country each time, so it's not just one doctor's opinion, and it was about 4 years apart each time. According to my wife, that's good enough for her to never even think about going down the vegetarian path.

My sister had a completely different experience during her pregnancy. Of course the doctor was concerned about her eating habits, but as long as she was eating a balanced diet the fact that it was vegan didn't make any difference. The same went for another vegan friend who recently had a baby. And neither my nephew's nor my friend's daughter's pediatricians have any concerns about the babies being raised vegan either. Again, so long as the diet is balanced, it makes no difference.

 

[TerokNor]

The vegetarian diet I think is very healthy, when its done right.

For the vegan diet I am not sure...

For children I think its best to raise them as "normal eaters", meaning allowing them also meat once or twice a week..however bio-meat...and letting them decite themselves later, if they want to be vegetarian/ vegan or not.

They can be raised vegetarian too, but then I think its highly important to really really do it right and have a lot knowledge about food...so that they get the protein they need for healthy development from other sources. Also... I am not sure, if they maybe would become "hard meat eaters" when they are older, when they never were allowed to try it before.
I am Vegetarian myself (by free will)... but I would not want to force watever diet (unless the child cannot eat something because of allergies or so) on my child. The important thing to me would be more to "plant" the respect for food into my child and the sensitivity to care about were the food (especially the meat and eggs) come from.
I would cook many vegetarian meals, so that it sees, that meat is not something, that needs to be there for every meal (as that also is not healthy)...and it would see of course that I eat no meat, but if it wants that too is his/her decision.

As for pregnant women...I think that maybe at least eating some fish would be a good thing to do.
However that does not mean for an grown person, that the vegetarian diet is unhealthy, but it means that the child for its development needs some more things.

The vegan diet is stated as not healthy for children in the Guidlines for healthy children food here in my country. And that is also my opinion.
(No offense to your sister or sisters friend meant thestrangequark.)

TerokNor

 

[thestrangequark]

^Vegan diets are perfectly healthy for children, so long as they're done correctly. My sister certainly feeds her son a healthier diet than the parents of my students, for example, who send their kids to school with whole packs of Oreos, chips, and sodas for lunch (ironically enough, usually vegan). I actually find it kind of funny when people get in a huff about pregnant women or kids eating vegan diets, but don't bat an eye at 3 year olds scarfing down junk like Doritoes or McDonalds. It is more difficult, of course, to raise a child vegan, and one really has to know what one is doing to ensure the child has proper nutrition.

I also think it's not a matter of forcing the diet on the child any more than a parent who feeds her child meat. I know many vegetarians and vegans who feel disgusted by the fact that they were made to eat meat as kids. Liam, my nephew, is eating vegan now. My brother-in-law eats meat, though, and I know that when Liam is old enough to choose for himself if he wants to eat animal products it will be his choice.

 

[gturner]

^ If a child (post weening but pre-beer) requires a significantly different diet than its parents, isn't it more of a larvae?

 

[TerokNor]

Well I am no expert on food, just know I would not want to raise my child vegan and read what the guidlines in my country say (maybe thats different in each country what those guidlines say..no idea *shrug*).
However I agree with you, that it certainly is unhealthier to feed children fast food stuff and similar things only or most of the time...and that combinated with a lot TV/Computer etc consum and less movement/ physical acitivities is for me a recipie for disaster....plain spoken.

Oh and with forcing I mean, when there just is no decision for the child at all... means if it would want to try meat, that it then would not be allowed to do so. Same goes for eating meat...if it does not want to eat it, so be it....then it surly can eat vegetarian, though than I need to imform myself somewhat more how to do it in a really healthy way (even actually I should be a "better vegetarian" myself as well without child). I just would not want the child to have no choice or maybe even feel guilty and bad or need to do it in secret, because they know the parents would dissaprove.


TerokNor