Is a Galaxy-Quest type movie the best way to restart Star Trek?
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And neither did anyone else, which is why you keep seeing "Hey, he saved the planet, dude!" as the explanation for why he was promoted. I've not read a single post that points out how Kirk demonstrated leadership - what acts he carried out, or why it makes sense given what we'd been shown about his character that he would have these amazing intuitive leaps that inspire loyalty (did he inspire any loyalty from anyone? - at best it seemed the other characters ceased to loathe him at the end). And since the movie was constructed as being about Kirk's rise to leadership and the forging of his relationship with Spock, it's weak because his rise to leadership and the foundations of their friendship just weren't convincing.
Things can be funny and moving at the same time. Galaxy Quest actually did a better job in terms of establishing the characters' relationships growing in new and convincing ways than ST09 did. That is, I found GQ more moving, even at the same time that it was fluff, than I did ST09 - because it was better written. As has been pointed out, thoughtful or thought-provoking isn't really required for Star Trek - it's nice when it happens and I still think there's some potential for this version to have some of that now that they've gotten the "let's twist the story every which way to get from kewl-rebel-dude-to-captain" out of the way. I don't mind that it wasn't thoughtful.
But honestly, can anyone say they thought Jim Kirk, as portrayed in this film, was admirable, inspiring and a leader you would want to follow? Cheesy as TOS Kirk could be, I bought him as an inspiring leader. I thought this Kirk was a tool.
Not to mention that the command decision that he insisted they take of pursuing the Narada - to the point of starting a fight on the Bridge and getting booted off the ship - would have only led to the Enterprise's destruction. It was only the 'gifting' of extremely long-range transportation by Spock Prime that they were able to stop the Narada. So, in essence, he was simply lucky in that regard.
Lapis Exilis, Kirk did save the planet; no one has ever done that. There is no comparison in our experience -- and no examples that suffice.
Captain Pike makes it clear he thinks some leadership abilities are inherited. The entire excellent opening Kelvin scene is this theme and for this reason. Kirk's aptitude is "off the charts."
Kirk inspired loyalty from Captain Pike on this basis -- and from what Pike saw in the academy and from his actions until the point where he made Jim first officer. Later on Kirk rescued Pike from the bowels of Nero's ship.
Bones realizes in the academy that Kirk's assignment is worth getting in trouble for. Kirk gets Sulu's loyalty when he dives off the drill platform and risks his own life to save Sulu's. Kirk then saves Scotty's life through quick thinking and action in hydraulics engineering.
On Nero's ship, Kirk covered Spock while Spock was engaged probing the Romulan's mind. By the time the two of them boarded the Jellyfish, Spock clearly trusted Kirk and was calling him, "Jim."
None of the characters showed anything but respect to Kirk after Spock returned to the bridge to offer to go to Nero's ship. And at the commendation and promotion ceremony, the hall was packed to the rafters. Saving the planet apparently counts for something there.
Anticitizen, Scotty already knew how to transport long range; that wasn't Spock's doing. Kirk made the right command decision. They could have done nothing from the Laurentian system; Earth would have been destroyed. With Kirk's decision, there was at least the chance they could have figured out some other way to get aboard the Narada.
Captain Pike makes it clear he thinks some leadership abilities are inherited. The entire excellent opening Kelvin scene is this theme and for this reason. Kirk's aptitude is "off the charts."
Kirk inspired loyalty from Captain Pike on this basis -- and from what Pike saw in the academy and from his actions until the point where he made Jim first officer. Later on Kirk rescued Pike from the bowels of Nero's ship.
Bones realizes in the academy that Kirk's assignment is worth getting in trouble for. Kirk gets Sulu's loyalty when he dives off the drill platform and risks his own life to save Sulu's. Kirk then saves Scotty's life through quick thinking and action in hydraulics engineering.
On Nero's ship, Kirk covered Spock while Spock was engaged probing the Romulan's mind. By the time the two of them boarded the Jellyfish, Spock clearly trusted Kirk and was calling him, "Jim."
None of the characters showed anything but respect to Kirk after Spock returned to the bridge to offer to go to Nero's ship. And at the commendation and promotion ceremony, the hall was packed to the rafters. Saving the planet apparently counts for something there.
Anticitizen, Scotty already knew how to transport long range; that wasn't Spock's doing. Kirk made the right command decision. They could have done nothing from the Laurentian system; Earth would have been destroyed. With Kirk's decision, there was at least the chance they could have figured out some other way to get aboard the Narada.
Not yet he didn't. Spock said that Scotty was the one who figured it out, but not until the future.
Scotty was exiled to Delta Vega, he said, because of long-range transporting of Admiral Archer's prized beagle.
Spock gave him the formula for transporting at warp -- which they did not use to get across from Titan to the Narada, which was stationary above Earth.
Exactly - poor writing. We are told in one of several rather clumsy exposition scenes that Kirk is a "genius repeat offender" - but we see no evidence of his genius - though we do get good evidence of the repeat offender, rebel-without-a-clue side of his character, making his cocky "I'll do it in three" and the Three Years Later card feel unsatisfactory. Show, don't tell - first rule of good writing. The audience is given absolutely no evidence that Kirk could do it in three years other than the script beating us over the head with a hammer - he's brilliant! He's cocky! See - watch him beat the Kobayashi Maru. We're not going to show you him actually doing the work to reprogram the simulation, but since we've told you (and told you, and told you) that he's a genius, surely that'll work dramtically.
But it doesn't.
As for Kirk saving the planet - wasn't it Spock who hijacks the timeship, destroys the drill and rams the Narada while Kirk is rescuing Pike? Seems Spock saved the planet, not Kirk.
Again, poor writing - without the audience ever being shown a single brilliant thing Kirk ever did, suddenly Pike is making him acting first officer, when he was aboard ship against orders, grounded for academic suspension. This made zero sense dramatically and was one of a series of steps where the plot has characters do silly things to contrive Kirk's supposed rise to leadership.
I'll give you that he saves Pike.
But why? Because they're pals? McCoy doesn't even get a line to tell us why he thinks it's worth getting Kirk on board other than trying to take away Kirk's hurt puppy dog look.
This and Pike's rescue are about the only things Kirk does in the entire movie that qualify as heroic - and both have the reckless "look before you leap" quality that Kirk is endowed with by Pike's speech at the beginning. Which was my point that Kirk undergoes zero character growth during the film.
You're going to present the 'pointless peril in the engine room' bit as a serious character moment?
You're proving my point again and again.
Look, if it worked for you - more power to you. But this is exactly what I'm talking about. You go on a mission with anybody, they should give you cover fire. It's hardly the basis for a lifelong friendship. But it's treated as if it is - which is why the movie is poorly written. Unjustified emotional beats that fall flat because Kirk's character is almost entirely undeveloped.
Unfortunately it was Kirk being honored with a promotion when it was Spock who saved the planet, so apparently saving the planet doesn't count for something there. Being brash, breaking the rules, and having the luck to land right where Spock Prime conveniently is also stranded after getting your ass thrown off the ship for insubordination - these things are worthy of the captaincy of the flagship according to this story.
Spock saved the planet-really? Spock couldn't think straight in the aftermath of the destruction of Vulcan and the death of his mother. He was SCARED and wanted to run back to the fleet for cover. He knew Nero was headed to Earth, and that Vulcan's fate would be Earth's without timely intervention. He chose to run...RUN back to the fleet, and when his exec questioned his authority, and judgement, which is his job BTW, he was ordered confined to quarters.
If Kirk hadn't gotten back aboard the Enterprise, and exposed Spock's Cowardice, Earth would have been gone and Nero would still be en route to the next federation world. By the time Starfleet would have acted, there probably wouldn't be enough of the Federation left to make a difference.
Kirk's actions, however contrived you may find them, saved the planet. His "genius" showed itself because he ultimately made the right choice, which he did repeatedly in TOS, sometimes against the judgement of Spock.
Kirk is completely deserving, not only of the respect of his crew-but of praise from Starfleet Command. In addition-Pike's faith in Kirk is rewarded.
MRE
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Which obviously didn't work.
I'm not reading all the pages. People on this board think I'm a hater of ST11. To some degree they're right. There is a lot of good to this film. No it's not serious SF, but neither were most of the episodes.
I actually think this film would have been a better SF action-adventure summer block buster if it wasn't a Trek film.
People who want a "mostly serious tightly and well written SF"? Uh, that's what novels are for. Most SF flicks aren't "serious tightly... well written SF".
I take it you've not seen many episodes of the various Star Trek series then.
I will completely agree about the holes, coincidences, and contrivances of the plot. Yes, other Trek films have them too, this one just has a whole lot more.
With the exception of a few episodes (throughout all the series), and a few very well written Trek novels, Star Trek is (by and large) not serious SF.
Again, with rare exception, Star Trek is not "serious well written SF".
Watch TOS again. There's an ass-load of silliness and ridiculousness. Same goes for all the other series and movies.
Lapis Exelis, Spock's scenes on the Jellyfish are some of my favorite in the movie; but without Kirk's determination, Spock wouldn't have been in the seat. He would have been in the Laurentian system while the planet disintegrated, as Vulcan did. Spock did not save the planet. Kirk did.
The Pike exposition scenes in the bar are elegant. It's easy to trust what Pike thinks of Kirk and Kirk's father. The earlier Kelvin scenes plainly did show Kirk's heritage that Pike refers to, and it is believable that Kirk would be what Pike says. It was set up nicely.
Kirk was not, in fact, shown to be a genius in TOS; we were told he was a walking stack of books and that in his class you either think or sink. Kirk's genius was present in his dynamism, as it was in this movie.
After Kirk decides for the academy, his actions are focused on the goals of service. He does it in three, because he has time to make up from his misspent youth. His approach to Kobayashi Maru was to improve the test; he had serious objections to it.
McCoy aids Kirk to board the Enterprise, because of Kirk's determination to help and be a part of the solution. Kirk bolts upright out of anesthetic in sick bay to charge all over the ship, to fight to be heard.
He takes a beating from Spock in order to get back on course to save Earth. There is no intimation that Kirk wants anything else than to make a contribution, like his father did -- except for dying. He is always focused on what can be done to succeed. And he does succeed -- like no other.
Kirk in TOS is a heroic figure, sprung fully formed out of the ground and never really changes. He doesn't do anything during the series that wouldn't be expected of him from the early episodes. It has no bearing on being called captain.
The Pike exposition scenes in the bar are elegant. It's easy to trust what Pike thinks of Kirk and Kirk's father. The earlier Kelvin scenes plainly did show Kirk's heritage that Pike refers to, and it is believable that Kirk would be what Pike says. It was set up nicely.
Kirk was not, in fact, shown to be a genius in TOS; we were told he was a walking stack of books and that in his class you either think or sink. Kirk's genius was present in his dynamism, as it was in this movie.
After Kirk decides for the academy, his actions are focused on the goals of service. He does it in three, because he has time to make up from his misspent youth. His approach to Kobayashi Maru was to improve the test; he had serious objections to it.
McCoy aids Kirk to board the Enterprise, because of Kirk's determination to help and be a part of the solution. Kirk bolts upright out of anesthetic in sick bay to charge all over the ship, to fight to be heard.
He takes a beating from Spock in order to get back on course to save Earth. There is no intimation that Kirk wants anything else than to make a contribution, like his father did -- except for dying. He is always focused on what can be done to succeed. And he does succeed -- like no other.
Kirk in TOS is a heroic figure, sprung fully formed out of the ground and never really changes. He doesn't do anything during the series that wouldn't be expected of him from the early episodes. It has no bearing on being called captain.
Scotty's the one who beamed Kirk and Spock on board the Narada, which was several planets away. In the lab on Delta Vega, Scotty specifically talked about beaming from planet to planet as being easy.
But remember, in the very next breath he mentions the loss of Admiral Archer's dog. He could have just been bragging.
I'll say this about Ebert even though he and I disagree about the movie: I thought it was really big of him to devote an entire column to readers' letters protesting his review, and that he published a counter-review by a rival critic, not for Ebert to get smarmy at but to present the other viewpoint to readers.
Who else would do that? Not many.
but kirk prime had that same drive and also at times depended on luck to get him out of it.
look at arena. he is hell bent on destroying the gorn ship as soon as they get in range.
depsite warnings from spock that there might circumstances they are unaware of and should first establish contact.
but no kirk wont here of it.
considering we finally find out the gorn thought the outpost was part of an invasion the only thing that kept kirk from starting a war was the metrons got into it.
and i can think of at least one other option of young kirk had not run into scotty.
they pop in behind the moon.
a little greater chance of being seen but one that might have worked.
but running to the fleet on the opposite side of federation space isnt some thing that prime kirk would have done either.
he would have challenged his crew to find a solution by the time they got to earth.
All true.
Starfleet is obviously military...it's just not militaristic. There is a difference.
GQ had some serious moments (first one that comes to mind is when Naismith is in the bathroom and the fans are dissing him). TOS and movies had plenty of silly momentsd ("Too much... LDS").
Yes the plot was ropy but they got the characters right, and next time hopefully the plot can be built on the great characters.
You're denigrating a company for wanting to make a buck? In this economy? Seriously?
You can't put everything into one move, otherwise it wouldn't be able to move (which was, in part, some of the problem with oldTrek). Take one step at a time, and soon it'll be running.
Yes the plot was ropy but they got the characters right, and next time hopefully the plot can be built on the great characters.
You're denigrating a company for wanting to make a buck? In this economy? Seriously?
You can't put everything into one move, otherwise it wouldn't be able to move (which was, in part, some of the problem with oldTrek). Take one step at a time, and soon it'll be running.
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