News Introducing Fact Trek

[MAGolding]

As I said, though, that's exactly what the word "retcon" is supposed to mean -- a change that is perfectly consistent with what came before. It's short for retroactive continuity, not contradiction. A successful retcon is one that does maintain continuity, that fits in as if it had been the case all along. So yes, it is a retcon, in the original sense of the word.




I think that was exactly the idea in "Space Seed." In real life, the eugenics movement got started in the 1880s and there were a lot of genuine efforts to improve humanity through the kind of selective breeding applied to plants and animals. It was a prominent movement in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, though it was usually driven by white supremacism rather than good genetics. It was a major driver behind the Nazis' beliefs, which is why it fell out of favor after WWII. But I take "Space Seed" as positing that at least one eugenics program -- one that more intelligently embraced genetic diversity rather than whiteness -- continued in secret and eventually succeeded. If it had started in the mid-1880s and produced a new generation every 18-20 years, say, and if Khan was born in the 1960s, say, then he could've been a fifth-generation product of the program. Cutting it a little close, less than a century, but certainly more plausible than assuming it was all done in a single generation.

As I remember, there is a famous example of successful eugenics in science fiction - the Howard families in Heinline's future history. In 19th century San Francisco, wealthy Mr. Howard left his fortune to improve humanlongevity. His executors use slective breeding. They looked for young adults people who had four healthy living grandparents and offered them money if they would marry someon on the list of people with four heatlhy living grandparents. After a few generatins it produced people who lived for centuries.

 

[T'Bonz]

To get back to Fact Trekkin'... the latest Trek coffee table book, Designing the Final Frontier, credits Star Trek with changing "the trajectory of 1960s fashion" with the miniskirt (actually skorts) female uniforms.

What say you Fact Trekkers? Myth or fact?

Myth. As someone who had a teenage sister during the time period, they were wearing minis before Trek even debuted. I was only a kid but I can remember my dresses (no pants in school for girls back in that era) being very short in 1965 and 1966, a big change from the knee-length dresses I wore to Kindergarten in 1963.

 

[alchemist]

To get back to Fact Trekkin'... the latest Trek coffee table book, Designing the Final Frontier, credits Star Trek with changing "the trajectory of 1960s fashion" with the miniskirt (actually skorts) female uniforms.

What say you Fact Trekkers? Myth or fact?

I haven't researched the issue, but the artist Earle K. Bergey is often given credit for popularizing the miniskirt in sci-fi in the 1940s. Here's an example of his art.

 

[plynch]

with brass bullet bra

 

[Henoch]

These have nothing on Tarzan and His Mate, 1934...

Many of the silent era film were quite spicy, too.

 

[alchemist]

These have nothing on Tarzan and His Mate, 1934...

Many of the silent era film were quite spicy, too.

True, but I don't think either of them is wearing a miniskirt.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I haven't researched the issue, but the artist Earle K. Bergey is often given credit for popularizing the miniskirt in sci-fi in the 1940s. Here's an example of his art.

I was just thinking that a lot of pulp SF mags had miniskirted women on their covers long before Star Trek aired. Also, Forbidden Planet, Trek's antecedent, had Anne Francis in a bunch of minis.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Just to be clear, Star Trek isn't credited with creating the mini-skirt, but popularizing it. The multitude of minis seen in films and print prior to the 60's didn't usher in a worldwide style change.

I still think it doesn't deserve that honor either, but I feel like the distinction needs to be reinforced.

 

[STEPhon IT]

These have nothing on Tarzan and His Mate, 1934...

Many of the silent era film were quite spicy, too.

For me, I find the miniskirt fine.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Just to be clear, Star Trek isn't credited with creating the mini-skirt, but popularizing it. The multitude of minis seen in films and print prior to the 60's didn't usher in a worldwide style change.

I still think it doesn't deserve that honor either, but I feel like the distinction needs to be reinforced.

Fair point.

Although the mini was also appearing on many of Trek's contemporary shows as well. Bewitched comes to mind. Serena often popped in wearing a miniskirt.

 

[Maurice]

And, for Star Trek to have popularized it, one can argue it would’ve had to have it been “popular“. It wasn’t in the 60s.

Just to be clear, Star Trek isn't credited with creating the mini-skirt, but popularizing it. The multitude of minis seen in films and print prior to the 60's didn't usher in a worldwide style change.

I still think it doesn't deserve that honor either, but I feel like the distinction needs to be reinforced.

“I believe I said that, doctor.”

 

[Ssosmcin]

“I believe I said that, doctor.”

Hence my note that it needed to be reinforced, cuz you were being ignored. I'll tag you next time I back you up.

 

[Kor]

It seems more that Star Trek was caught up in the growing popularity of the miniskirt that was already happening. Does that "Designing" book give any sources for the assertion that Trek made the garment more popular? One of the issues I take with books like that for popular audiences is that they often present such sweeping assertions as fact, without citing any sources or giving more detailed explanations/evidence.

Kor

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Just to be clear, Star Trek isn't credited with creating the mini-skirt, but popularizing it. The multitude of minis seen in films and print prior to the 60's didn't usher in a worldwide style change.

I still think it doesn't deserve that honor either, but I feel like the distinction needs to be reinforced.

Minis as part of the cultural landscape were already appearing on American TV. For example, there were several extras on Batman who wore minis, and that series premiered some nine months before TOS (and at a time when Batman was a highly visible hit). Then, you had music-oriented series such as The Monkees (premiered the same month/year as TOS), American Bandstand, Shindig! and others that were never short on women showing off the latest fashion trends. So, one can say many TV series helped to popularize certain fashions, arguably to a greater degree than TOS.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

It seems more that Star Trek was caught up in the growing popularity of the miniskirt that was already happening. Does that "Designing" book give any sources for the assertion that Trek made the garment more popular? One of the issues I take with books like that for popular audiences is that they often present such sweeping assertions as fact, without citing any sources or giving more detailed explanations/evidence.

Kor

It does not. It only speculates on it then says it's up to us to decide.

 

[Kor]

It does not. It only speculates on it then says it's up to us to decide.

Well I guess speculation is a little better than claiming it as a fact.
I would surmise that for most people in the general audience, it wouldn't even occur to them to change their everyday attire to be more like what they saw in a fanciful TV show set in the far future.

Kor

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Well I guess speculation is a little better than claiming it as a fact.
I would surmise that for most people in the general audience, it wouldn't even occur to them to change their everyday attire to be more like what they saw in a fanciful TV show set in the far future.

Kor

But it does state emphatically in the opening paragraphs that Thesis designs "changed the trajectory of 1960s fashion". Then ends the section with a "you be the judge."

So sorta but kinda not speculation or claiming it as fact.

 

[Christopher]

I think that if Star Trek had been so widely watched and influential as to change the course of fashion, it wouldn't have struggled in the ratings and teetered on the edge of cancellation every season. So I don't think they really thought that claim through.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

As @Maurice said... (emphasis mine)

View attachment 23680 View attachment 23681

They were old news in the sci-fi movies and the like. These are from 1951. And, for Star Trek to have popularized it, one can argue it would’ve had to have it been “popular“. It wasn’t in the 60s.

 

[J.T.B.]

Yeah... I'm sure there were some teen/young adult women watching Star Trek, but compared to fashion magazines and more youth-oriented movies and TV shows its impact would be insignificant.