Interface

[Finngle Bells]

Doing a TNG rewatch...

They sure were quick to declare the Hera lost. I don't blame Geordi

This happened a bit more than a year before Voyager...and they didn't call Voyager lost until more than a year after....

 

[Timo]

They gave up searching for the Hera after 72+72 hours, just like they probably did with Voyager. But the status after that might still be "missing", considering that Dad spoke of "lost" while the search was still ongoing! Surely Starfleet would wait with a formal "lost" at the very least until the search had been abandoned - and Dad is merely being unduly pessimistic here, and is speaking of what he thinks Starfleet "considers", as sharply opposed to what Starfleet officially declares.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mojochi]

"Lost" doesn't have to mean destroyed, like the ships at Wolf 359. It can also just mean it's... lost. Lost can sometimes mean it'll still be found... like the Bozeman. In fact, Memory Alpha cites a novel where the Hera & crew were found

I never quite understood the finality they were trying to force on Geordi myself either. Seemed a little well, forced... plot-wise that is lol

Consider The Pegasus. It was certainly declared destroyed, because of the witnessed explosion & ensuing disappearance, except it wasn't. Had people known, say if the survivors had revealed there was a potential it was merely trapped in a cloaked/phased state, a rescue could've been deployed, & some of the crew might've been saved, before the final unphasing rock issue happened. I have to think anyone working with that tech should've at least considered that possibility.

Pressman would've known well enough they might not be destroyed. He wrote those mutineers off, & let them die on purpose.. & when Will grew TF up, he probably figured that out sometime thereafter

 

[Vger23]

I just watched this one the other night during a re-watch that I am doing as well. I thought it was pretty blah. It seemed to me (yes) that they gave up on the Hera far too quickly because the plot required it.

And I thought LaForge acted like a childish jackass, even with the stress of maybe losing his mother.

 

[Crazy 4 Xmas Lights]

Haven't seen this one in awhile. I didn't especially like it, but didn't loathe it with a passion the way I do certain ones (looking at you, "Half a Life"). Might be worth another look.

 

[Vger23]

Haven't seen this one in awhile. I didn't especially like it, but didn't loathe it with a passion the way I do certain ones (looking at you, "Half a Life"). Might be worth another look.

It's dreadfully dull. And LaForge acts like a chagrined 15 year old because the plot requires it.

Otherwise, it's really not too bad.

 

[Orphalesion]

"Lost" doesn't have to mean destroyed, like the ships at Wolf 359. It can also just mean it's... lost. Lost can sometimes mean it'll still be found... like the Bozeman.

I could see a protocol where Starfleet considers a crew dead at the point where a ship hasn't been found for so long that all resources the ship has to keep its crew alive would be exhausted.

 

[Mojochi]

I could see a protocol where Starfleet considers a crew dead at the point where a ship hasn't been found for so long that all resources the ship has to keep its crew alive would be exhausted.

So like 5 years? Because that seems to be the standard amount of time they send them out on those 5 year missions to the uncharted ass ends of space. So does that seem like a sensible benchmark for how long they expect a crew can go without needing to come back, for... whatever?

 

[Crazy 4 Xmas Lights]

Less than 5 years, because Voyager was considered to have been lost after only 3.

 

[Mojochi]

Less than 5 years, because Voyager was considered to have been lost after only 3.

Was a reason given as to why at that time they fully declared it officially lost?

 

[dupersuper]

Doing a TNG rewatch...

They sure were quick to declare the Hera lost. I don't blame Geordi

This happened a bit more than a year before Voyager...and they didn't call Voyager lost until more than a year after....

Yeah, given all the times Starfleet ships/personnel are seemingly dead or go missing only to pop up later (Kirk, Spock, Data, the Bozeman, an so on), this baffled me at the time. Even her husband and daughter seemed to just accept it.

 

[Timo]

"Lost" doesn't have to mean destroyed, like the ships at Wolf 359. It can also just mean it's... lost.

Quite so. But this is the military speaking in militarianese, so there's a distinction between "lost" and "missing" inherent. Or ought to be...*

I never quite understood the finality they were trying to force on Geordi myself either. Seemed a little well, forced... plot-wise that is lol

The somewhat weird saving grace here is that the party doing that forcing, and speaking of "lost", was Dad and Dad alone. He may quite plausibly have had Reasons. Since the character never returns, we don't learn of the Reasons, or the underlying Issues. But were the character to return, I'm sure it would be specifically because of said Issues!

Was a reason given as to why at that time they fully declared it officially lost?

The thing is, "they" didn't. Instead, Dad claimed that Starfleet "considered" the ship lost, making this statement in such a way that it seemed he was revealing a secret that went against the official stance (which then naturally would not be "lost", but "missing"). Again, we get the impression of an agenda there...

Timo Saloniemi

* OTOH, when Picard "lost" the Stargazer, the court martial may have been specifically because of that. That is, it's no biggie if a ship sinks from beneath you, but if you misplace her, losing kmowledge of her whereabouts, like Picard did...

 

[danellis]

I always think of it in terms of when soldiers are no longer on duty in war films:

I always thought "missing" meant "we don't know where they are:" They might have been captured, damaged, scarpered, we don't know.

"Lost," meanwhile means "we don't know where they are, but we don't think they exist/alive/functional any more." Maybe they've found wreckage, they prison information exchange that would've mentioned them has been complete, a certain amount of time has elapsed. We don't know, but it's time to start reading wills, carving names on memorials, writing the Eagle of the Ninth, that sorta thing.


dJE

 

[Timo]

"Missing" is basically broader and "Lost" a bit narrower in the usual case. The former covers even cases where something blew up big time and nothing as large as bodies was found, i.e. "they're most probably dead, I mean, it would take a miracle for them not to be, but we can't be 100% sure", while the latter is generally only applied when bodies or body parts are found or it's obvious that the victim could not have been elsewhere during the all-destroying kaboom. And yes, time elapsing will turn the former to the latter in legal terms, i.e. people will be declared dead in absentia. But not always in military ones.

The Hera would be very much "missing" here, even if presumed lost in layman terms. Since we don't hear official statements from authorized parties here, we don't know if Starfleet views these things differently and has already applied "lost", or merely presumes her lost in layman terms but sticks to the appropriate "missing".

Timo Saloniemi