Interest in Independence Day 3 movie/series

[SalyutBuran]

These movies are simple but honestly, sometimes i like and need simple movies where you can turn off the brain for 2 hours, enjoy the 'splosions and at the end tear the movie apart ( which is why Michael Bays' Armaggeddon is one of my favorite movies )

See this is where I think a radical misconception is occurring. Both Michael Bay and Roland Emerich have real strengths to story writing that get over looked.

There's a certain variety of intelligence that is unique to them. Obviously it isn't found in a movie like transformers, but if you look at ID4 and Armaggeddon there's some real strengths that you don't get elsewhere.

ID4 is notable for its cross class mosaic. You get people of all races and classes depicted on screen in a way that feels balanced. You have the MIT grad, Vietnam war vet, president, solider etc all in the same plot. And it's done in a way that seems relatively well done. Obviously there's a number of flaws in that structure, but the point is you get a real human story with the full range of experiences.

For all the crap of ID4, the lead is interesting, he's a person who's chosen a life of mediocrity, his relationship with his wife and father is very compelling. He's incredibly gifted but is more interested in biking to work than working at a major engineering firm. To me that alone is enough to carry the movie. I imagine if it were a modern take, he's just be some self absorbed "genius", who rambles about global warming while driving an suv.

Will smiths character is raising someone elses kid. Has a relationship with a stripper. Has real personality quirks and it creates the energy behind the arrival of the aliens. His dialogue at his girlfriends home is beyond epic. His relationship with his friend is surprisingly compelling. The whole scene where is friend finds the wedding ring has real substance in my opinion.

The president himself again has all these layers. He isn't just the president he's a failing president. A president few people take seriously. He's a person who wasn't prepared for peace time presidency, he looses his wife, etc.

Finally you have a veteran suffering from ptsd and alcoholism. You have his family trying to cope with his flaws. And you have a society that treats him like some alex jones loving leper.

This is a complex world that is simplified to be watchable by children. In contrast most films nowadays you have a simple world that is being presented as complex.

Again you see similar themes with Armageddon. You have a group of independent contractors. They have technical know how, the characters have depth. As in they have back stories that you could imagine filling a full movies worth of content. The people feel real even if it is a cartoonish environment. While obviously there's a ton of scientific flaws, you feel like you're connecting with something deeper.

In short if you rebooted these films there's a ton of things to work with. In contrast most films would require a complete rewriting of characters and plots if you were to do a serious reboot.

 

[SalyutBuran]

I was fairly intoxicated when I went to see the second ID4 at the theater (not something I made a habit of, thankfully). I wasn't particularly impressed, from what I could remember.

After re-watching it at home stone cold sober, it was apparent this was a better film when viewed through an incoherent, booze-fueled haze.

But sure, make another one. It'll be pretty. Dumb, but pretty.

The real problem is that it suffers from the Matrix affect, where the people making the films didn't understand why the first one did so well.

The power of ID4 and the first matrix movie was that they were leveraging the real world as we know it. They took a somewhat believable world that really exists and added in an element of the supernatural. In both cases the sequels started off in a world that was already super natural. In both cases it was the reveal of an external supernatural reality that compelled the audience and drew them into the film.

What made ID4 great to me was all the small moments most people don't even realise they value.

1) The scientist playing miniature gulf at SETI, and the senior scientist waking up and hitting his head once the signal is detected.

2) Will smith peeing and ignoring the aliens on the horizon due to his tiredness, the tripping over the childs toy, grabbing the news paper and quickly realising there's something in the background.

3) David playing chess with his father, his biking to work, being nagged about his ex wife, so on and so on.

4) The president being unpopular, his wife campaigning for his reelection etc and etc.

The sequel trashed the whole premise of the film by creating some cgi generated universe free of real depth that ordinary people can relate to.

If they were to continue on with the original premise I think they have to do a total reboot or alternative some shifting of your frame of reference.

I think something that is almost critically overlooked is how directly Battlestar Gallactica borrowed from ID4. I mean they literally have the same actor playing the presidents wife in ID4 and the presidents girlfriend in BSG. In both cases the dominating image is of a planet being decimated by an alien attack. In both cases a genius techy type is instrumental in understanding the nature of these attacks. One of your lead characters is a hotshot pilot, one with the drama of wanting to marry a stripper, the other an impulsive personality that includes sexual promiscuity. In both cases select few have knowledge of previous incidents. Adama knows about the existence of a hybrid, and in ID4 it's id4. In both cases the conflict between the military and the politicians is critical. In both cases you have alcoholics who have moments of veteran alcoholics who become critical in the survival of the human race. In both cases it's a virus that creates the impetus to beat the enemy. In both cases the initial fleet of ships is destroyed in a coordinated attack in both cases the remaining rag tag fleet of planes/fighters become our last defence.

ID4 has real depth the kind of depth that BSG had. If they are doing it again they have to get back to that initial premise. Perhaps one way to do it is to go with the BSG scenario. Earth is attacked and the remainder of humanity must flee earth in Caravans fighting for their survival.

In any case you have to get back to the idea of a naturalistic environment. Where people piss, smoke, yawn, squabble, get married, get divorced, work, become unpopular etc etc.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Battlestar Gallactica borrowed from ID4. I mean they literally have the same actor playing the presidents wife in ID4 and the presidents girlfriend in BSG.

Uh, in nuBSG, she WAS the president...

I want the sequel where Patrick Moore gets into a fist-fight with an alien

And plays the xylophone.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[DarKush]

The real problem is that it suffers from the Matrix affect, where the people making the films didn't understand why the first one did so well.

The power of ID4 and the first matrix movie was that they were leveraging the real world as we know it. They took a somewhat believable world that really exists and added in an element of the supernatural. In both cases the sequels started off in a world that was already super natural. In both cases it was the reveal of an external supernatural reality that compelled the audience and drew them into the film.

What made ID4 great to me was all the small moments most people don't even realise they value.

1) The scientist playing miniature gulf at SETI, and the senior scientist waking up and hitting his head once the signal is detected.

2) Will smith peeing and ignoring the aliens on the horizon due to his tiredness, the tripping over the childs toy, grabbing the news paper and quickly realising there's something in the background.

3) David playing chess with his father, his biking to work, being nagged about his ex wife, so on and so on.

4) The president being unpopular, his wife campaigning for his reelection etc and etc.

The sequel trashed the whole premise of the film by creating some cgi generated universe free of real depth that ordinary people can relate to.

If they were to continue on with the original premise I think they have to do a total reboot or alternative some shifting of your frame of reference.

I think something that is almost critically overlooked is how directly Battlestar Gallactica borrowed from ID4. I mean they literally have the same actor playing the presidents wife in ID4 and the presidents girlfriend in BSG. In both cases the dominating image is of a planet being decimated by an alien attack. In both cases a genius techy type is instrumental in understanding the nature of these attacks. One of your lead characters is a hotshot pilot, one with the drama of wanting to marry a stripper, the other an impulsive personality that includes sexual promiscuity. In both cases select few have knowledge of previous incidents. Adama knows about the existence of a hybrid, and in ID4 it's id4. In both cases the conflict between the military and the politicians is critical. In both cases you have alcoholics who have moments of veteran alcoholics who become critical in the survival of the human race. In both cases it's a virus that creates the impetus to beat the enemy. In both cases the initial fleet of ships is destroyed in a coordinated attack in both cases the remaining rag tag fleet of planes/fighters become our last defence.

ID4 has real depth the kind of depth that BSG had. If they are doing it again they have to get back to that initial premise. Perhaps one way to do it is to go with the BSG scenario. Earth is attacked and the remainder of humanity must flee earth in Caravans fighting for their survival.

In any case you have to get back to the idea of a naturalistic environment. Where people piss, smoke, yawn, squabble, get married, get divorced, work, become unpopular etc etc.

First part of your argument is very, very strong. But for the second part I think you're reaching a bit when it comes to new BSG taking from ID4. I'm not opposed to that happening, however, the original BSG's DNA was in nu BSG. Male Starbuck was promiscuous almost twenty years before ID4. The alien invasion, end of the world stuff was in the original BSG, long before ID4. Also were the hot shot pilots.

You got me on both having alcoholic veterans, but other wise I don't see much evidence where nu BSG took from, or was inspired by ID4, and especially directly inspired or influenced by that film. Perhaps an argument can be made that ID4 took some inspiration from the original BSG instead.

 

[valkyrie013]

So basically the first movie was normal people that were thrown into abnormal problem. Warts and all.
The 2nd was just a mess, with mostly unlikable characters. The kids were just bland. They tried to make them interesting but failed. Returning characters were ok, Jeff was great, Brent was great as well. Rest, ho hum .

Best bet would be for will smiths character to return , having disappeared on an FTL prototype.
And make it more interesting.

 

[Markonian]

Best bet would be for will smiths character to return , having disappeared on an FTL prototype.
And make it more interesting.

I like that. Hiller has serious beef with the aliens because of the first movie.
Now he returns as Humans ready to take on the aliens, and he has to choose between his original family on Earth, and his new wife and half-Human/half-locustalien daughter. #familydrama

Keep Humans as the ultimate good guys but add some moral ambiguity. Kinda like Starfleet having to choose whether to blow Qo'noS to smithereens or not in 2257.

 

[Enterprise is Great]

In the third one it starts with Will Smith waking up from a bad dream so the sequel didn’t happen.

 

[Jayson1]

I believe people are trying to add a little bit of moral complexity that really doesn't jive with the first film. The movie is all about pure escapism and not thinking to much into the whole thing. Heck the movie ends on a happy ending despite half of the planet destroyed and Presidents wife just recently dying.

 

[Gepard]

I really enjoyed Greg Bear's duo of novels Forge of God and Anvil of Stars. Seeing as ID:R was, effectively, an unlicensed adaptation of the former, I'd love to see them continue with the latter.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

There was no moral complexity in the first movie because it was clear self defense. If the plot if the third movie would be counter-genocide, there's inherent moral complexity that no amount of writing around it can suppress.

 

[Jayson1]

I think if they make another they should simply ignore the second one and pretend it wasn't made.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Series showing the aftermarth of the attack and the rebuilding of earth. Throw in occasional de-aged versions of Goldblum and/or Smith, and have an inspirational speech from Pulman at the end of season 1

 

[Jayson1]

I like that idea but you still need some alien danger. So have some of them loose on the planet. Only issue is this sounds a lot like the new Aliens tv show coming up.

 

[marillion]

There was no moral complexity in the first movie because it was clear self defense. If the plot if the third movie would be counter-genocide, there's inherent moral complexity that no amount of writing around it can suppress.

Unless they are coming to aid another planet being attacked. I don't believe the writers would intentionally go for the counter-genocide route.

 

[Gepard]

Series showing the aftermarth of the attack and the rebuilding of earth. Throw in occasional de-aged versions of Goldblum and/or Smith, and have an inspirational speech from Pulman at the end of season 1

I like that idea but you still need some alien danger. So have some of them loose on the planet. Only issue is this sounds a lot like the new Aliens tv show coming up.

Adapt the African alien ground war discussed in Resurgence. Plenty of people felt it was a more interesting premise than what we got, and they could do it on a moderate budget. Plus they could bring back Dikembe Umbutu, one of the only good new characters (maybe the only good new character).

 

[Jayson1]

I like that idea though I would make it more global were it's happening not just in Africa but in other countries and continents as well. Make it more into globe trotting adventure.

 

[JD]

ID4 has real depth the kind of depth that BSG had. If they are doing it again they have to get back to that initial premise. Perhaps one way to do it is to go with the BSG scenario. Earth is attacked and the remainder of humanity must flee earth in Caravans fighting for their survival.

In any case you have to get back to the idea of a naturalistic environment. Where people piss, smoke, yawn, squabble, get married, get divorced, work, become unpopular etc etc.

We already go that twice in BSG, and we have have another on the way, so it seems kind of redundant to copy what they've done and are doing.

 

[valkyrie013]

Well a possible scenerio,
Will Smith comes back, we find him at the Sanctuary Planet that the AI was talking about, but finds out Jasmine died, and is in pain, and wants to get back at the Aliens, and we set up a story where Steve wants to genocide them, and Dr. Levison wants to end the problem but not on a genocidale level. That lets you tell the story on both sides.