Insurrection was the best NG movie.
- Thread starter Chrisisall
- Start date
They have since fixed that, didn't you get the memo?
Curious... did Data know everything about himself? He could have discovered some of the features Dr. Soong installed, later.
Since you seem to ignore the concrete, subjective and unsupported is all that's left...
Thinking back to my experience watching the movie in the theater, I guess my biggest problem was that the stakes for our crew were practically nonexistent. Compare with the previous movie, "First Contact." The stakes their were everything -- the future of the human race as well as the survival of the Enterprise and her crew. What would have happened in Insurrection if our crew failed and the Ba'ku had to move? Picard's feelings would be hurt because he'd feel the Federation betrayed its principles.
The thing is, this was what Piller had in mind. He wanted to show our crew nobly defending people even though they had no personal stake in doing so. I remember him saying as much in interviews. Certainly in the real world it's noble, but it makes for boring drama. I want our crew to have a major stake in the events of their story.
The thing is, this was what Piller had in mind. He wanted to show our crew nobly defending people even though they had no personal stake in doing so. I remember him saying as much in interviews. Certainly in the real world it's noble, but it makes for boring drama. I want our crew to have a major stake in the events of their story.
Since you seem to ignore the concrete, subjective and unsupported is all that's left...
You'll have to forgive Chrisisall. He's quite ...how shall I say ... young
john titor
Captain
Just watching it now, I can't say its a good movie, its incredibly boring and they didn't use the budget they were given to the fullest extent possible, fc had a slightly lower budget irc but doesn't look quite the two parter like this film. However I appreciate its slower pacing, something that there needs to be more of in films as everything is so crash bang whollop. I also like the political and philosophical elements, however scant they may be but it does question the feds integrity etc yadda yadda. Its truest to the principles of TNG. The main thing I can see letting it down right now is the characterization which is beige.
john titor
Captain
Finished watching it. Ok a few more thing I have to say
While FC was low budget and certainly looked like it in places it masks this through excellent pacing and big action sequences. This is quite doable considering Desperado was made for 7 million and looks like a 30 million actioner. Its TNG firing on all cylinders. So Insurrection with a slightly larger budget feels like a step backwards. I know they were going for a more toned down civil film but after the excitement of FC I can imagine it was a big let down for many cinemagoers. What they could have done was make a 2.30 hr film with a plot of greater scope while including the deep themes but playing them out over a more ambitious canvas. This is the problem with Insurrection, while I appreciate its quietness, when you're making films for the big screen and you've just made a mega blockbuster actioner you're kinda constrained by what you should follow it up with and unless its an auteur masterpiece anything low key is going to dissapoint. Another thing I noticed is that the sets look cheap, the fx is technically fine but still cheap looking and not very well composited with the live action footage. But what I will say for this film is that its closest to the heart of TNG and for that I'll give it a thumbs up.
While FC was low budget and certainly looked like it in places it masks this through excellent pacing and big action sequences. This is quite doable considering Desperado was made for 7 million and looks like a 30 million actioner. Its TNG firing on all cylinders. So Insurrection with a slightly larger budget feels like a step backwards. I know they were going for a more toned down civil film but after the excitement of FC I can imagine it was a big let down for many cinemagoers. What they could have done was make a 2.30 hr film with a plot of greater scope while including the deep themes but playing them out over a more ambitious canvas. This is the problem with Insurrection, while I appreciate its quietness, when you're making films for the big screen and you've just made a mega blockbuster actioner you're kinda constrained by what you should follow it up with and unless its an auteur masterpiece anything low key is going to dissapoint. Another thing I noticed is that the sets look cheap, the fx is technically fine but still cheap looking and not very well composited with the live action footage. But what I will say for this film is that its closest to the heart of TNG and for that I'll give it a thumbs up.
Maybe. I, for one, was happy they were going to get away from the slam-bang action, and with Piller writing the script I expected a deeper character piece, but I was disappointed.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
I'm still not getting how you folks figure FC is slam bang action. There is practically no action in the movie. Frakes took a page from how much of Cameron's ALIENS went unseen or barely glimpsed, but he didn't balance that with the big showy stuff, like Ripley's rescue of the trapped marines. What passes for a big sequence in FC is that slow spacewalk on the hull, with Patrick Stewart turning into Mary Martin for that pathetic spin jump over the dish.
john titor
Captain
yes but thats because the budget was meager. Like 21st century earth was relegated to the same bit of grass and field that they used for countless alien planets. It was probably the same piece of land they used for the lore/borg episode.
"Slam-bang" is the way Rick Berman described it.
First off, it wasn't Patrick Stewart that demanded the "Heart of Darkness" story be cut. Piller states on one of the Blu-ray docs that that came out after he showed the script to Ira Steven Behr.
More importantly as regards the Baku, it WAS their planet. They were there first. It's stated in the movie that they settled there over 300 years ago. The Federation could hardly have a claim to a planet that was settled before the Federation even existed. Following on that logic, we Americans had every right to move the "Native" Americans off their land because their ancestors actually came across the land bridge from Asia. Take for example the Star Trek universe. If some resource is found on Romulus, is the Federation justified in an all-out invasion of Romulan Space to obtain it? After all, the Romulans are actually from Vulcan. The lack of clarity on this issue is rather disturbing to me.
And by the way, the Baku at no time denied anyone else the chance to settle on their planet or to even conduct experiments. All they did was protest when their planet was going to be destroyed.
More importantly as regards the Baku, it WAS their planet. They were there first. It's stated in the movie that they settled there over 300 years ago. The Federation could hardly have a claim to a planet that was settled before the Federation even existed. Following on that logic, we Americans had every right to move the "Native" Americans off their land because their ancestors actually came across the land bridge from Asia. Take for example the Star Trek universe. If some resource is found on Romulus, is the Federation justified in an all-out invasion of Romulan Space to obtain it? After all, the Romulans are actually from Vulcan. The lack of clarity on this issue is rather disturbing to me.
And by the way, the Baku at no time denied anyone else the chance to settle on their planet or to even conduct experiments. All they did was protest when their planet was going to be destroyed.
Look, I'm not condoning that point of view, but the fact that Native Americans are the ancestors of people crossing the ancient land bridge has been a scientific theory at least for many years. It's also found in many history books. After all, if life began in Africa as is commonly believed, they had to get here somehow.
We cool then.
Lack of Clarity?
- This is really just simple math and eminent domain at work.
Insurrection fails because it is a silly moral dilemma at the heart of the story and the Ba'ku are really unlikeable. And there are just holes all over the story... I mean it's like swiss cheese.
Why hide a cloaked ship on the ground (within walking distance of the Ba'ku villiage) that has fourteen transporters? Since you have to beam them aboard anyway, do it from orbit. You can beam up eighty-four people at a time, at roughly a minute to transport... you can beam up six hundred people in under eight minutes. Sensors should have been able to re-create the Ba'ku villiage, so no real need for a duck-blind to observe. You're not planning on studying them, not planning a 'First Contact' mission.
Lack of Clarity?
- This is really just simple math and eminent domain at work.
Insurrection fails because it is a silly moral dilemma at the heart of the story and the Ba'ku are really unlikeable. And there are just holes all over the story... I mean it's like swiss cheese.
Why hide a cloaked ship on the ground (within walking distance of the Ba'ku villiage) that has fourteen transporters? Since you have to beam them aboard anyway, do it from orbit. You can beam up eighty-four people at a time, at roughly a minute to transport... you can beam up six hundred people in under eight minutes. Sensors should have been able to re-create the Ba'ku villiage, so no real need for a duck-blind to observe. You're not planning on studying them, not planning a 'First Contact' mission.
The clarity I'm referring to is the fact that just because they were not native to that planet doesn't mean they don't have a right to it. The fact that, really, the Federation had no claim on the planet. Hell, I can claim that the state of California belongs to me, but that doesn't make it so.
And I just do not see what makes the Baku so unlikable. All they were doing is living their lives, not bothering anybody. As I previously pointed out, they never denied anyone the benefits of their planet or the option to settle there. All they objected to was the destruction of their planet and all life on it.
The Sona and the Federation didn't even appear to try to find another solution and if they were so convinced they were doing the right thing, why bother with the holoship in the first place? Why make it a secret? If the plot was flawed, and I agree it could have been stronger in some areas, it was flawed on the other side.