Insurrection, size of the planet?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by φ of π, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. φ of π

    φ of π Captain Captain

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    Why didn't the Son'a just settle on the other side of the planet (in Federation space) that the Ba'ku claimed?
     
  2. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

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    They didn't because the story wasn't thought out properly.
     
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  3. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Wasn't there something about how "normal exposure" wouldn't cure them?
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why's this so difficult to grasp? The Son'a didn't want to settle, in any sense of the word. They wanted the Ba'ku to horribly perish, for being ultraconservative assholes who had driven the young Son'a away all those years ago. Giving up on immortality would be a small price to pay for that. And besides, the Collector thingamabob might actually work.

    Also, while the Ba'ku live in a single village, they obviously aren't a single-village culture. You can't sustain iron age tech from a single village. They'd most probably have global transportation means stowed away somewhere so that they could fly or teleport to their iron mines for whenever they needed to stock up on those cosplay supplies of theirs. The Son'a would not be safe from their pious parental sermons anywhere.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's a big planet...but not overly big. Kinda normal big.
     
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  6. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The real question is why didn't the Baku offer to let them settle on the other side of the planet?
     
  7. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    They said it would take years of normal exposure to begin to reverse the genetic damage. They were all going to die long before it could heal them to a liveable level, not even close to restoring them.

    The concentrated conditions inside the Collector (probably via controlled exposure chambers) would heal them considerably faster. In the novel Ru'afo dies by being ejected into the rings and reverting to an infect, then cells etc

    The Collector could then be made available to others travelling to it to be renewed for years.
     
  8. φ of π

    φ of π Captain Captain

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    How long were the Ba'ku away from the planet for?

    Did they go to the Shinzon school of tight schedule planning?
     
  9. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because the Baku exiled them into space despite having no technology or infrastructure.
     
  10. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's a really small planet. Like, pretty much the same size of an outdoor area in California where you can't see any power lines or roads from certain angles.
     
  11. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What (in the movie) made you think the Ba'ku claimed the planet?
     
  12. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think when you're 120 or however old those guys were physically, dying of arthritis and other poisons, you may be a bit bitter.
     
  13. Burning Hearts of Qo'nOs

    Burning Hearts of Qo'nOs Commodore Commodore

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    Brilliant.
     
  14. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    If one knew ship dimensions, one could use those to extrapolate the size of the planet:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    To compare, noting in all cases we do not know how high up in orbit each ship is, but I'd reckon the nameless Blue Bunny planet in the Briar Patch must be much bigger than Earth, especially if it has rings:
    [​IMG]

    The ISS is 109x73 meters (w/l). More--> https://www.livescience.com/32583-how-big-is-the-international-space-station.html (the Enterprise is mentioned, LOL)


    As I recall, the Ba'ku and Son'a were the same species and the movie treated the Ba'ku as a single village culture. But you're right ,even though they don't get old and die, they started with a handful and after 3 centuries ended up with 600. So they're making babies and, at that rate, will eventually have overpopulation problems in maybe fifty thousand years or so, but then they can do a sequel and remake the plot to "The Mark of Gideon" :D .

    Son'a were the parents and the kiddies kicked 'em out because they wanted to learn and do more than play hackey sack all day or something, the story barely goes into detail apart from having a Ba'ku impress everyone with not being surprised in how they know warp drive, positronic androids, and so on, so there's no doubt somebody would eventually go after that apple. But obviously the informatio nwas passed down aurally instead of forgotten, so one Ba'ku is responsible for making the rebels they kicked out when the first generation there should have destroyed every bit of knowledge, but then Picard wouldn't be awed over how the alleged localyokels could spout how they knew of advanced technologies...

    Okay, it is true some children will beat out their parents or even kill them - the Menendez boys from the 1990s being an obvious example. We're told the current state of the Son'a but nothing of substance regarding their family squabbles. Nothing about the Ba'ku.

    I recall the Son'a buggered off and conquered other small planets (token slam at colonization, I suppose, despite being more nomadic, but if Doctor Who has a troupe of 3 or 5 aliens as being the army intent to conquer a planet, why not the dozen decaying Son'a?), but the Ba'ku seem a little too prim, poised, pristine, and perfect-ly arrogant - try saying that with a mouth full of partially chewed saltine crackers, it's not pretty. Anyway, at times you could almost see their noses point upward into the stratosphere because they're so pompous with their superiority complex. Maybe they were keeping skeletons in their closet, or maybe they were ever so perfect. We're not told anything except how they're the good guys. It's superficial, one-sided, contrived, and preachy-for-a-narrative as a result. There's a lot of context not really told in the movie. We're just supposed to side with the Ba'ku and shove excessively-buttered popcorn down our gullets and/or get frisky in the back row of seats in the theater.

    Either way, the So'na were so upset that they preferred revenge than wanting to find a Starfleet-style resolution. But it's not the first time there've been discontented groups of people lasting multiple centuries.

    Given the size of the village, and enough dialogue proves it is just this one containing 600 people - a fatal flaw in the plot, ironic since the big selling point was to ask "How few is too few in order to consider them", making absolutely nobody else in the audience think of that glib and inadequately-defined bumper sticker "nobody is free when one is oppressed".

    And the planet wasn't a Federation planet so the Prime Directive didn't really apply to begin with. Its use in the story also hinges on a depth that isn't fully realized (or even present) to really make the audience want to feel for the Ba'ku. Since both civilizations, Sona and Baku, didn't originate there, do the prime directivey thing and ship 'em home and then the natural course will be returned and they can then experiment and get the magic fountain of youth formula distributed (preferably with low lead content). Yet Picard was right that that would be interfering, but the planet isn't a Federation colony (since colonization isn't a bad thing by default) and no galactic claim exists, so back to square one.

    The plot is scattered enough to begin, as scattered as my long-winded posts certainly, with but then they hit the biggest home run from a foul ball: Even Worf (who decides to go on leave during a critical time relevant to his position to go play in the sandbox with his friends on the Big-'E' ) shows signs of de-aging long before stepping foot on the planet, and as exposition telling us of how the radiation known as "Harrypotterlala radiation" had to stay there or else it may not be effective, they had to set up any reason to protect a handful of people on an isolated small part of the planet.

    But as much as I could spend a week railing on the faults of the movie, the casting was great, and F Murray Abraham did manage to sell the So'na leader as being a real badarse. It made the Briar Patch fight more engaging than the Borg in the previous movie - here's the dogfight, though I wish they had clips of Ru'afo doing the setup on giving the orders to eliminate them, as Riker saying the B-word in describing the So'na:



    * cough * Okay, I'm back. The look on Geordi's face with absolute worry helps rather a lot... the movie had its flaws but I wanted to find a good moment to represent of it as well. Even though it mentions a couple of things...

    Wait, I found a clip of Ru'afo - a compilation, it starts with the Ru'afo scene in question. Great stuff that sets the emotional wind-up perfectly, and it's an interesting edit with wipes and fades as well:


    Back to nitpicking, before reveling in those clips makes me re-rate the whole movie to 10/10 as a result: Never mind Picard didn't start getting all mambo and horny until returning from the planet, much less Crusher and Troi outright lying about how boobies aren't important in the 24th century*, or Geordi getting to see for real behind the implants (which may or may not remain viable, which means that introduces yet another plot hole about the POINT of everyone diddling with the radiation to begin with if it's not going to work... as Geordi is seen with implants in future episodes, "Insurrection" is one big epic fail.

    * See the first clip above for all that CrusherTroi goodness, or here's the transcript:
    TROI: And have you noticed how your boobs have started to firm up?
    CRUSHER: Not that we care about such things in this day and age.

    TROI: Uh-huh
    (meanwhile, much like most of the audience, Data is staring at Troi and Crusher since Troi brought the issues up... Naughty, as androids aren't going to care, or that emotion chip is doing a lot more than what anyone would have guessed...)

    If they didn't care, would either of them be bringing it up? Unless Crusher was somehow offended that Troi is treating her like a sex object. Raise your hands if you like being perceived as nothing more than just a sex object... (sex is part of something more worthwhile with another person, not the thing or the only worthwhile thing as if they're nothing more than the used cigarette thrown in the middle of the highway, but that's my opinion and many exist.)

    Okay, I need a break for a quick giggle:



    *cough* Okay, I'm back again.

    Didn't the leader Ba'ku guy get all haughty in saying how they knew of advanced technology but chose not to use it?

    I don't know. I've already gotten to the nitty gritty over how the plot and dialogue are far messier than this long-winded ramble that's sponsored by (not really) Neon Moon bras (yes, I looked it up, it's a real brand and the name even sounds science-fictioney! :D ) It has some good moments but a lot of it is way too flawed, not that moviegoers care about those things in this day and age, which reminds me I am watching a certain movie made in, say, 2009, either early tonight or later at night to help me get to sleep... :)
     
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  15. φ of π

    φ of π Captain Captain

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    So... how did the Ba'ku attempt to repair the damage to Data's positronic net? A medicine wheel?
     
  16. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    They turned his positronic net off and on :)
     
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  17. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Minor nitpick, that's not a picture of the ISS.