It was certainly more glaringly ambitious than Insurrection. So was the best Trek movie, First Contact, before it.
Insurrection rewatch: So much potential
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It was certainly more glaringly ambitious than Insurrection. So was the best Trek movie, First Contact, before it.
In my own case a big problem with Insurrection is that I live in a rural part of northern California and my own rainy, forested backyard looks more wildly otherworldly than the most boring "alien" planet Star Trek ever came up with. They should have filmed it on my own family's vast property, it would have looked better.
A hugely disappointing (and boring) follow up to the brilliant First Contact leading to an over correction with Nemesis.
I kind of agree with this, but it at least had ambitions to entertain the audience with some action and that kick ass space battle/ramming scene, which I think justifies a watch alone. I happen to love the rest of the film too but totally get why people don't. It is very flawed, but it entertains the hell out of this trek fan and that's good enough for me.
Insurrection on the other hand is just... shit. It has a few nice moments with the cast but the rest of it is a crushing disappointment every time I watch it.
I wonder if the film might seem at least a little better, at least less disappointing, if it was clearly set (and had been released) after the end of DS9 and its war.
A lot of the better films were more about more relatable humans than aliens (TVH, part of FC, arguably TWoK). Certainly many viewers found people doing without advanced technology weird, maybe even thought-provoking, although more in an offputting way.
Well the film does, I think fairly, admit that the Ba'ku and deciding to help them are controversial although it also does argue for and side much more with them and doing so. The needs of the few vs. of the many have long been controversial issues for both societies and ST.
A lot of the better films were more about more relatable humans than aliens (TVH, part of FC, arguably TWoK). Certainly many viewers found people doing without advanced technology weird, maybe even thought-provoking, although more in an offputting way.
Well the film does, I think fairly, admit that the Ba'ku and deciding to help them are controversial although it also does argue for and side much more with them and doing so. The needs of the few vs. of the many have long been controversial issues for both societies and ST.
I don't just think it's controversial, I think it's entirely wrong-headed. If the Baku were native to that planet, then fine, but basically their claim to the rings rests on the argument of "Finders keepers" and there doesn't seem to be a moment when they express any degree of sympathy for the people whom the rings could help. Even a "We feel for those out there who could benefit from the rings...but..." would have made it a little better...
I can't speak for the other poster, but personally I think when we say "the protagonists are hard to empathize with", a lot of us include the Enterprise crew themselves, however moral their actions, the way it's played lacks any of the subtlety and nuance we may have expected from these same characters on TV. And if the Enterprise crew feel.unrelatable, then you've pretty much lost the audience as well
No, because the movie raised some interesting questions, and none of the various groups came off as unambiguously "correct." The movie possessed complexity, if you weren't looking for it the movie could be viewed purely at a surface level, but the complexity was there.
Could the movie have been even more? Of course, I didn't like the direction TPTB took the Admiral character, and I thought some of the Enterprise officers should have had ethical positions different than Picard's and should have then voiced them.
This occasionally happen in the series.
I feel this is where the movie is better than other Trek movies, you basically get to pick who the "the good guys" are from what's being presented on screen, instead of the script writers making this decision for you.
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Except that conflicts with the general paradigm of Trek, where if our characters aren't doing the morally upright thing then they're at least shown to be conflicted about it.
Here Our Heroes affect the morally upright stance and show no conflict in a situation in which I think they make multiple mistakes.
Here Our Heroes affect the morally upright stance and show no conflict in a situation in which I think they make multiple mistakes.
Honestly, I think it strove to appear complex, which is significantly different than actually being complex. And when you strive to be complex and fail, it's even more apparent.
As it were, it was just a poorly executed premise. Admittedly, Trek is littered with them, but when you pile on the other sub-par elements of the film, it's just an unmitigated turd.
There sure was--the remake was called AVATAR. (Cameron's of ocurse)
Their claim to a right to it was from having lived there for 300 years, not just a mere 5 or 10 or 50 years before others came.
I guess they don't address that others could benefit from the resource but that could be because they don't necessarily oppose that happening. Their supporter Picard readily suggests that other people, who want the benefit, can move to the planet. Nothing wrong with others getting the benefit too just don't, because of that, deprive the people already there of being able to stay.
Well, IIRC, Dougherty does say that it would take ten years of normal exposure to the rings to heal the Son'a (presumably less long for less advanced ailments), and I can't exactly blame people for not wanting to sit around on the planet for a decade...Which isn't to say the Son'a went about things the right way either... Though they -did- approach the Federation through regular channels instead of just sneaking in...
I don't feel we as an audience should have to assume that the Baku offered to help in any way not shown onscreen, especially given everything else we learn about their evident desire for isolation. Such a gesture would be significant enough to merit depiction. Besides, if it happened, why wouldn't there then be a discussion with the Son'a noting that they had been offered that option, or between Picard and Dougherty about it?
Anyway, I don't care how long they've been there. It's not their home, it's a place they were lucky enough to find after screwing up their home. They're essentially sitting on the cure for cancer and saying, "Oh, sorry cancer victims, we're not willing to inconvenience ourselves to help you."
It's just like the Maquis who would rather have seen a war between the Federation and Cardassians that would likely have killed at least thousands than face the oh-so-terrible burden of abandoning their homes to move back to a land of virtually unlimited resources (thank you replicators).
Then there's the fact that they kicked their kids off the planet, and when the kids come back upset about it, there's no discussion of how such an advanced race could have exiled the kids before but couldn't do so again, nor of the fact that maybe the adults have to some degree reaped what they've sown.
I don't feel we as an audience should have to assume that the Baku offered to help in any way not shown onscreen, especially given everything else we learn about their evident desire for isolation. Such a gesture would be significant enough to merit depiction. Besides, if it happened, why wouldn't there then be a discussion with the Son'a noting that they had been offered that option, or between Picard and Dougherty about it?
Anyway, I don't care how long they've been there. It's not their home, it's a place they were lucky enough to find after screwing up their home. They're essentially sitting on the cure for cancer and saying, "Oh, sorry cancer victims, we're not willing to inconvenience ourselves to help you."
It's just like the Maquis who would rather have seen a war between the Federation and Cardassians that would likely have killed at least thousands than face the oh-so-terrible burden of abandoning their homes to move back to a land of virtually unlimited resources (thank you replicators).
Then there's the fact that they kicked their kids off the planet, and when the kids come back upset about it, there's no discussion of how such an advanced race could have exiled the kids before but couldn't do so again, nor of the fact that maybe the adults have to some degree reaped what they've sown.
People who hold up "Winter Soldier" as an example of great writing scare me a little.
PIcard suggests that the Son'a (only the Son'a) could relocate to the planet, but in a (admittedly) cut scene Picard refuses to permit the creation of facilities for people in general to come to the planet.
The Ba'ku would seem to have oppose it . They definitely didn't go out of their way to inform the galaxy that this wonderful medical resource existed. Given that they were able to exile their children the Ba'ku obviously continued to possess warp drive after they arrived.
It shouldn't, it is a interesting and well made story. Pretty faithful to the original comic source material.
I'm sure it's faithful, but "it's all nazis" was a non sequitur and unfulfilling payoff.
