Insurrection rewatch: So much potential

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by wayoung, Apr 22, 2019.

  1. wayoung

    wayoung Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    I always hated Insurrection. One of my least favourite Trek movies. So boring.

    I recently got all the treks on Blue Ray for a buck each so I'm rewatching them. I have Insurrection on in the background and this is the first time I noticed the potential behind it.

    (FYI Pillars unpublished book on the making of this film is fantastic and should be read by everyone on this forum ;) )

    This could have been an excellent study of the dark side of the Federation. Instead of a weak, ineffectual (lame) villian in the Admiral imagine if this was a section 31 operation secretly piggybacking on a legit Starfleet operation studying the Baku. The Sona are just their tool to blame the harvesting on once it becomes public. This would have been Picard and co's first exposure to this element within the Federation and been a much better reason for their "Rebellion". There should have been more made of the effect on the crew than just statements about boobs firming up and Worf getting acne. Data makes one comment about how the effects may be clouding their judgement but we could have seen some real impulsive, emotionally unstable decisions and actions spurring on the "rebellion".

    Another thought: The Sona specifically identify the duck blind as a Starfleet product. Did the Romulans re-negotiate cloaking rules with eh Dominion war, allowing the Federation to utilize it for non-military purposes? Obviously not an answer needed in the movie, just a general thought. And with the destruction of the Star Empire cloaking technology is no longer banned by treaty, will all Starfleet vessels have it moving forward? It is an excellent tool for their exploartexp and research projects.
     
  2. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley
    INS and TFF are what happens to films with great potential that end up with waaaaay too many cooks in the kitchen trying to shape and put their own stamp on things.
     
  3. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Personally I like the idea that the Federation Council actually did approve this operation for whichever of a variety of reasons you choose to go for, and that Picard and his crew aren't going to tell them anything they don't already know.

    And the fact that the Baku and Son'a are related just brings the Prime Directive back into play in the sense of making this an internal matter that the Federation shouldn't be involving themselves with at all.

    Needless to say, Trek is...or should be...better than Ugly=Bad, Pretty=Good.

    In any case, I continue to find the Baku largely unsympathetic.
     
  4. arch101

    arch101 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Location:
    Quincy, MA
    Actually, the idea of capturing the planet's healing powers to help the Federation win the war smacks of a Section 31 scheme. S31 had been invented on DS9 by that time, I'm surprised the writers didn't use it to help insulate the utopian Federation from seeming to do wrong- and instead covering the Feds with the tired, old cliche of an Admiral gone bad. A great retcon to the mess would be a reveal in some novel that Dougherty was S31. It wouldn't matter that the Sona were making Ketracel White, S31 knew the Founders Disease was already doing it's work. It was only a matter of time.
     
  5. Yellow Flame Sushi

    Yellow Flame Sushi Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2018
    The Ancient Greeks believed that a beautiful body reflects a beautiful soul and after a lifetime of dealing with ugly people, beautiful people and everything in between I have say that those guys were once again dead-bang on target. ;)
     
  6. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    They did that in one of the novels. I find it less compelling than the idea that the Feds legitimately were going ahead with the plan. (shrug)
     
  7. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    I've known a lot of beautiful people who were arrogant pricks because they believed they could get away with anything. :p
     
  8. Armus

    Armus Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2003
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    My thoughts exactly. Art by committee never works.
     
    Vger23 likes this.
  9. wayoung

    wayoung Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    That's a broad statement, considering we're days from the release of one of the biggest movies ever, currently at 98% on Rotten Tomatoes, and destined to make over a billion $$$, a culmination of an entire 22 film franchise made entirely by committee.

    It's an easy generalization, but there are a lot of cases where such a process saved films instead of dooming them.
     
  10. Armus

    Armus Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2003
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    My only point is that the best art comes from a pure and undiluted vision. In the case of Insurrection, the studio, the two lead actors, and the excutive producer all came to the table to make demands, and for different motives. It's not easy trying to please all these disparate voices and I don't think such a process encourages good art.

    I agree that film is a collaborative effort as a whole. Screenwriters, director, actors, producers, editors, costume designers, and production designers all contribute together to make the end product. Sometimes the studios have good suggestions too.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
    Allyn Gibson likes this.
  11. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley

    I mean no disrespect, but a paint-by-the-numbers Marvelverse Summer Blockbuster Extravaganza Fest movie isn't what I would call art. It's a great many things, for sure, but not "art." At least, not by my way of judging things.
     
    Galactic Alignment and Armus like this.
  12. wayoung

    wayoung Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 17, 2016
    And yet somehow Star Trek is? That's just gatekeeping.
     
  13. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    I always suspect that people who deride the writing of the MCU films haven't actually seen all that many of them. Winter Soldier in particular comes to mind.
     
  14. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley
    Sure.

    I guess?

    Consider your gate kept, then
     
    Armus likes this.
  15. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley
    Fair point, my interest level in super heros is even lower than my interest level in watching televised cornhole tournements.
     
    Kahlesh and Armus like this.
  16. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Thank you for acknowledging the point. :)
     
    Armus and Vger23 like this.
  17. Defiler-Of-Redshirts

    Defiler-Of-Redshirts Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    I think one of the problems with Insurrection is that it was so uncreative. It featured the most generic, who-gives-a-shit humanoid species imaginable. And this "paradise planet" was so mundane and Earth-like there was nothing colorful, alien, fantastic or imaginative about it. You never felt like you were on some unique other world. I think it's the sheer, dull laziness of its own setting that crippled the movie.
     
    Smellmet, Armus, Khan 2.0 and 2 others like this.
  18. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley
    I agree with your assessment, but I actually think the blah setting was only a minor reason the movie was poor.

    The major reasons were that it was a mediocre, luke-warm story that was less interesting or exciting than 2/3 of the one-hour television episodes it was based on. Those episodes, btw that were $1.5M each, vs. a major motion picture budget of over $50M.

    INS's greatest sin was that it was just so pedestrian and mediocre. There's literally nothing that separates it from a below-average episode.
     
    Smellmet likes this.
  19. Defiler-Of-Redshirts

    Defiler-Of-Redshirts Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2017
    I can certainly understand that. I always found "fountain of youth" stories boring in general. One of the reasons I (go ahead and kill me) enjoyed Nemesis and not Insurrection is that I find the idea of genetics/cloning naturally a lot more fascinating than a lazy, generic fountain-of-youth story that Insurrection was. And as I said before, nothing about this world/species seemed interesting or unique enough to care about. I do think it would have improved the movie a bit if this planet had some really epic, crazy, surprising, dynamic, colorful qualities to liven everything up.
     
  20. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    Enterprise bowling alley
    I liked Nemesis too. Very flawed, and somewhat derivative...but I enjoy it emmensely nonetheless. It's lightyears better than the piece of plain white bread and tap water that Insurrection ended up being. At least NEM tried to be something.