Insurrection rewatch: So much potential

[wayoung]

I always hated Insurrection. One of my least favourite Trek movies. So boring.

I recently got all the treks on Blue Ray for a buck each so I'm rewatching them. I have Insurrection on in the background and this is the first time I noticed the potential behind it.

(FYI Pillars unpublished book on the making of this film is fantastic and should be read by everyone on this forum )

This could have been an excellent study of the dark side of the Federation. Instead of a weak, ineffectual (lame) villian in the Admiral imagine if this was a section 31 operation secretly piggybacking on a legit Starfleet operation studying the Baku. The Sona are just their tool to blame the harvesting on once it becomes public. This would have been Picard and co's first exposure to this element within the Federation and been a much better reason for their "Rebellion". There should have been more made of the effect on the crew than just statements about boobs firming up and Worf getting acne. Data makes one comment about how the effects may be clouding their judgement but we could have seen some real impulsive, emotionally unstable decisions and actions spurring on the "rebellion".

Another thought: The Sona specifically identify the duck blind as a Starfleet product. Did the Romulans re-negotiate cloaking rules with eh Dominion war, allowing the Federation to utilize it for non-military purposes? Obviously not an answer needed in the movie, just a general thought. And with the destruction of the Star Empire cloaking technology is no longer banned by treaty, will all Starfleet vessels have it moving forward? It is an excellent tool for their exploartexp and research projects.

 

[Vger23]

INS and TFF are what happens to films with great potential that end up with waaaaay too many cooks in the kitchen trying to shape and put their own stamp on things.

 

[DonIago]

Personally I like the idea that the Federation Council actually did approve this operation for whichever of a variety of reasons you choose to go for, and that Picard and his crew aren't going to tell them anything they don't already know.

And the fact that the Baku and Son'a are related just brings the Prime Directive back into play in the sense of making this an internal matter that the Federation shouldn't be involving themselves with at all.

Needless to say, Trek is...or should be...better than Ugly=Bad, Pretty=Good.

In any case, I continue to find the Baku largely unsympathetic.

 

[arch101]

Actually, the idea of capturing the planet's healing powers to help the Federation win the war smacks of a Section 31 scheme. S31 had been invented on DS9 by that time, I'm surprised the writers didn't use it to help insulate the utopian Federation from seeming to do wrong- and instead covering the Feds with the tired, old cliche of an Admiral gone bad. A great retcon to the mess would be a reveal in some novel that Dougherty was S31. It wouldn't matter that the Sona were making Ketracel White, S31 knew the Founders Disease was already doing it's work. It was only a matter of time.

 

[Yellow Flame Sushi]

Needless to say, Trek is...or should be...better than Ugly=Bad, Pretty=Good.

The Ancient Greeks believed that a beautiful body reflects a beautiful soul and after a lifetime of dealing with ugly people, beautiful people and everything in between I have say that those guys were once again dead-bang on target.

 

[DonIago]

Actually, the idea of capturing the planet's healing powers to help the Federation win the war smacks of a Section 31 scheme. S31 had been invented on DS9 by that time, I'm surprised the writers didn't use it to help insulate the utopian Federation from seeming to do wrong- and instead covering the Feds with the tired, old cliche of an Admiral gone bad. A great retcon to the mess would be a reveal in some novel that Dougherty was S31. It wouldn't matter that the Sona were making Ketracel White, S31 knew the Founders Disease was already doing it's work. It was only a matter of time.

They did that in one of the novels. I find it less compelling than the idea that the Feds legitimately were going ahead with the plan. (shrug)

 

[DonIago]

The Ancient Greeks believed that a beautiful body reflects a beautiful soul and after a lifetime of dealing with ugly people, beautiful people and everything in between I have say that those guys were once again dead-bang on target.

I've known a lot of beautiful people who were arrogant pricks because they believed they could get away with anything.

 

[Armus]

INS and TFF are what happens to films with great potential that end up with waaaaay too many cooks in the kitchen trying to shape and put their own stamp on things.

My thoughts exactly. Art by committee never works.

 

[wayoung]

My thoughts exactly. Art by committee never works.

That's a broad statement, considering we're days from the release of one of the biggest movies ever, currently at 98% on Rotten Tomatoes, and destined to make over a billion $$$, a culmination of an entire 22 film franchise made entirely by committee.

It's an easy generalization, but there are a lot of cases where such a process saved films instead of dooming them.

 

[Armus]

That's a broad statement, considering we're days from the release of one of the biggest movies ever, currently at 98% on Rotten Tomatoes, and destined to make over a billion $$$, a culmination of an entire 22 film franchise made entirely by committee.

It's an easy generalization, but there are a lot of cases where such a process saved films instead of dooming them.

My only point is that the best art comes from a pure and undiluted vision. In the case of Insurrection, the studio, the two lead actors, and the excutive producer all came to the table to make demands, and for different motives. It's not easy trying to please all these disparate voices and I don't think such a process encourages good art.

I agree that film is a collaborative effort as a whole. Screenwriters, director, actors, producers, editors, costume designers, and production designers all contribute together to make the end product. Sometimes the studios have good suggestions too.

 

[Vger23]

That's a broad statement, considering we're days from the release of one of the biggest movies ever, currently at 98% on Rotten Tomatoes, and destined to make over a billion $$$, a culmination of an entire 22 film franchise made entirely by committee.

It's an easy generalization, but there are a lot of cases where such a process saved films instead of dooming them.

I mean no disrespect, but a paint-by-the-numbers Marvelverse Summer Blockbuster Extravaganza Fest movie isn't what I would call art. It's a great many things, for sure, but not "art." At least, not by my way of judging things.

 

[wayoung]

And yet somehow Star Trek is? That's just gatekeeping.

 

[DonIago]

I always suspect that people who deride the writing of the MCU films haven't actually seen all that many of them. Winter Soldier in particular comes to mind.

 

[Vger23]

And yet somehow Star Trek is? That's just gatekeeping.

Sure.

I guess?

Consider your gate kept, then

 

[Vger23]

I always suspect that people who deride the writing of the MCU films haven't actually seen all that many of them. Winter Soldier in particular comes to mind.

Fair point, my interest level in super heros is even lower than my interest level in watching televised cornhole tournements.

 

[DonIago]

Thank you for acknowledging the point.

 

[Defiler-Of-Redshirts]

I think one of the problems with Insurrection is that it was so uncreative. It featured the most generic, who-gives-a-shit humanoid species imaginable. And this "paradise planet" was so mundane and Earth-like there was nothing colorful, alien, fantastic or imaginative about it. You never felt like you were on some unique other world. I think it's the sheer, dull laziness of its own setting that crippled the movie.

 

[Vger23]

I think one of the problems with Insurrection is that it was so uncreative. It featured the most generic, who-gives-a-shit humanoid species imaginable. And this "paradise planet" was so mundane and Earth-like there was nothing colorful, alien, fantastic or imaginative about it. You never felt like you were on some unique other world. I think it's the sheer, dull laziness of its own setting that crippled the movie.

I agree with your assessment, but I actually think the blah setting was only a minor reason the movie was poor.

The major reasons were that it was a mediocre, luke-warm story that was less interesting or exciting than 2/3 of the one-hour television episodes it was based on. Those episodes, btw that were $1.5M each, vs. a major motion picture budget of over $50M.

INS's greatest sin was that it was just so pedestrian and mediocre. There's literally nothing that separates it from a below-average episode.

 

[Defiler-Of-Redshirts]

I agree with your assessment, but I actually think the blah setting was only a minor reason the movie was poor.

The major reasons were that it was a mediocre, luke-warm story that was less interesting or exciting than 2/3 of the one-hour television episodes it was based on. Those episodes, btw that were $1.5M each, vs. a major motion picture budget of over $50M.

INS's greatest sin was that it was just so pedestrian and mediocre. There's literally nothing that separates it from a below-average episode.

I can certainly understand that. I always found "fountain of youth" stories boring in general. One of the reasons I (go ahead and kill me) enjoyed Nemesis and not Insurrection is that I find the idea of genetics/cloning naturally a lot more fascinating than a lazy, generic fountain-of-youth story that Insurrection was. And as I said before, nothing about this world/species seemed interesting or unique enough to care about. I do think it would have improved the movie a bit if this planet had some really epic, crazy, surprising, dynamic, colorful qualities to liven everything up.

 

[Vger23]

I can certainly understand that. I always found "fountain of youth" stories boring in general. One of the reasons I (go ahead and kill me) enjoyed Nemesis and not Insurrection is that I find the idea of genetics/cloning naturally a lot more fascinating than a lazy, generic fountain-of-youth story that Insurrection was. And as I said before, nothing about this world/species seemed interesting or unique enough to care about. I do think it would have improved the movie a bit if this planet had some really epic, crazy, surprising, dynamic, colorful qualities to liven everything up.

I liked Nemesis too. Very flawed, and somewhat derivative...but I enjoy it emmensely nonetheless. It's lightyears better than the piece of plain white bread and tap water that Insurrection ended up being. At least NEM tried to be something.