Instead of Nemesis plot it could have been....

[Admiral_Young]

I once wrote an alternate Nemesis treatment featuring Sela and a rouge faction of Romulans being responsible for murdering the Senate in a hostile takeover of the Imperial Senate. There was no Shinzon and the "Nemesis" theme in the film would be two fold, the larger one involving the conflict between the Romulans and Federation and a secondary more personal one between Sela and the Enterprise crew. Especially Picard and Data. Riker and Deanna would still be married but Riker already promoted to Captain of the Titan and Data as first officer. Will would be stuck aboard the Enterprise during his wedding as the Romulan crisis develops. Wes would not have returned to Starfleet but just visit for the wedding and leave when he senses the disturbance in fact he had a line where he says "I shouldn't have come here now. I need to leave." Beverly questions him but he states that an event is about to occur that is fixed in time (I didn't use that particular phrase) and he can't be here to aide them. Sela is defeated when Picard manages to convinces Donatara that she's following someone who wishes to harm the interests of the Star Empire rather than bolster them and turns the military against Sela. Data sacrifices himself in a personal battle with Sela where he says "Your mother would be very disappointed in you." At the end we get a glimpse of Titan, while Picard promotes Worf to first officer.

People have disagreed with me regarding the use of Sela but I think she would be a far better villain than Shinzon and the Remans were.

 

[Mirren Audax]

It went downhill after seeing Jim Robinson from Australian soap 'Neighbours' as the Romulan Praetor, and the line about Romulan ale, the dune buggy, the aliens chasing the dune buggy, the underuse of Ron Perlman, the lack of explanation for B-4 and Shinzon (possibly tying in the plot from 'Unification'), and the telepathic rape. The space battles were good, but killing Data was gratuitous.

It was a disappoinment; I only hope the mirror universe version was better.

 

[Broccoli]

It was a disappoinment; I only hope the mirror universe version was better.

It was the same movie, but they just all had goatees.

 

[scnj]

Or the nuTrek version:

"There's no doubt about it man, he's your clone."
"Bullshit."

 

[JarodRussell]

Is it just me or were the characters in this movie so extremely tired?

I know from an interview with Stuart Baird that he instructed Jerry Goldsmith to make the score sound sad and weary. I wonder if he had the same in mind when it came to the characters.

Which is eventually why I think this movie sucked BADLY and the box office. You can't do a movie that the audience will leave depressed. The Undiscovered Country was a dark movie, it was the final movie of the TOS cast, but it was NEVER tired, weary or sad. The music was triumphant, there was optimism, there was humor, and in the end the Enterprise sailed into the light.

Is it just me or did anybody else feel that Nemesis was a terribly depressed movie?

Spock's death and funeral in TWOK left me with a slight smile on my face because of James Horner's beautiful music and the scenes that followed after it, with Kirk & Co watching the birth of a new world, with Kirk saying he's feeling young again, and with the camera warping triumphantly into the end credits. Data's death and "funeral" left me weary. "Blue Skies" and a close up of a slight smile on Picard's face, followed by the most tired version of Goldsmith's Star Trek theme I've ever heard. Moreover, it was the only movie that ended with the Enterprise sitting in spacedock. Even in Generations, when the Enterprise was destroyed and Kirk died, there was a triumphant scene with spaceships going to warp, ending the movie with a bang.

I think I finally nailed down what really bugs me about that movie. It simply wasn't fun, it was tiresome. Yet TWOK or TUC showed that even dark can be fun.

 

[Captain Zog]

Nemesis should have featured an intelligently written, orginal story relating to the Romulans.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah I agree that the characters seemed tired and sad. Stuart Baird was such a poor choice for directing "Nemesis" as he didn't seem to understand anything about The Next Generation crew let alone Star Trek but he had like a three picture deal with paramount and this was what he chose. I agree that an original story involving the Romulans would have been a better story. I don't think Tom Hardy was a bad choice to play Shinzon, I just think Shinzon was written badly. Tom Hardy was awesome in "Rock N' Rolla". I think using Patrick Stewart as Shinzon should have been considered more of an option.

 

[bigdaddy]

I once wrote an alternate Nemesis treatment featuring Sela and a rouge faction of Romulans being responsible for murdering the Senate in a hostile takeover of the Imperial Senate. There was no Shinzon and the "Nemesis" theme in the film would be two fold, the larger one involving the conflict between the Romulans and Federation and a secondary more personal one between Sela and the Enterprise crew. Especially Picard and Data. Riker and Deanna would still be married but Riker already promoted to Captain of the Titan and Data as first officer. Will would be stuck aboard the Enterprise during his wedding as the Romulan crisis develops. Wes would not have returned to Starfleet but just visit for the wedding and leave when he senses the disturbance in fact he had a line where he says "I shouldn't have come here now. I need to leave." Beverly questions him but he states that an event is about to occur that is fixed in time (I didn't use that particular phrase) and he can't be here to aide them. Sela is defeated when Picard manages to convinces Donatara that she's following someone who wishes to harm the interests of the Star Empire rather than bolster them and turns the military against Sela. Data sacrifices himself in a personal battle with Sela where he says "Your mother would be very disappointed in you." At the end we get a glimpse of Titan, while Picard promotes Worf to first officer.

People have disagreed with me regarding the use of Sela but I think she would be a far better villain than Shinzon and the Remans were.

I completely agree with everything except Worf, I'd still have him in the Kligon Empire doing soemthing, but that's minor.

Sela should have been used, the fact she wasn't is a joke. In Khan they act like he is a true bad guy and blah blah blah. It was one episode. Sela's mom was a main character for a season, and Sela herself were featured often in the later seasons, people would understand the connection. If not then screw it, make a good movie and no one will care. I didn't see the Khan episode of Star Trek until 2 years ago.

A lot of should ahve beens, and very little good in the movie.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I think I would include Worf as still the Federation Ambassador to the Klingon Empire and have him try and enlist the Empire against the Romulans. It would be clear that Sela was leading a militant faction of the Empire that was still "bloodthirsty" from it's successes in the Dominion War. I think I'd even have Sela mention Sisko's involvement to recruit the Star Empire in the first place and expose this to the Senate and when they didn't act on it this would be part of her reason for the mass murder. I actually did think that they'd bring back Sela as the villain and was very disappointed with the cloned Picard plot.

 

[DarKush]

With Nemesis I always felt that they emulated the wrong film. It shouldn't have been TWOK but TUDC that they looked to for inspiration, if they had to go the route of looking back to a previous TOS film.

Peace with the Romulans, who were the Klingons of TNG, in terms of being a long-standing foe, should have been the end goal of the final TNG movie. It would've had the crew go out on a high note.

I would have kept the film mainly about the Romulans. The Remans had potential, but I think the Romulans were good enough villains, with nearly 40 years of history at that time, to carry a movie. I don't get why B&B never warmed to them. Or understood why Trek fans didn't like them.

I would've bought back Sela too. But I would've had her working with the TNG crew instead of opposing them, and it would be a rough partnership. But there would be a greater threat to the Romulans and Federation.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Yeah I think they should have taking a more TUC approach with the Romulans...especially after being their reluctant allies in the Dominion War. I think that we can agree that while not a totally awful film, "Nemesis" did drop the ball in terms of story potential. I remember wondering what the hell I had just seen after seeing it in the theaters while my best friend loved it. We had a debate on the way home about it in the car lol.

 

[Pauln6]

Sela should have been used, the fact she wasn't is a joke. In Khan they act like he is a true bad guy and blah blah blah. It was one episode. Sela's mom was a main character for a season, and Sela herself were featured often in the later seasons, people would understand the connection. If not then screw it, make a good movie and no one will care. I didn't see the Khan episode of Star Trek until 2 years ago.

A lot of should ahve beens, and very little good in the movie.

Now I quite enjoyed Nemesis but yeah, I'd have been very happy if they'd made use of Sela.

In fact I'd have been very happy if they'd used Tasha too. A middle-aged member of the Romulan underground forced to confront her maniacal daughter one last time - it might have had a fair bit of resonance - and we'd only had Sela's word that Tasha was executed after all.

 

[Jeyl]

I would've bought back Sela too. But I would've had her working with the TNG crew instead of opposing them, and it would be a rough partnership. But there would be a greater threat to the Romulans and Federation.

While she doesn't garner that much respect in the fandom, I would personally watch all of the episodes featuring her 10 times than watch Shinzon again. Plus if you had her in the story, you would be tying the film up with "Yesterday's Enterprise", probably showcasing that it was that alternate Yar's choice of going back that ultimately lead to the Federation's peace with Romulas. That would have been awesome.

But since they didn't do that, now we've got to deal with a Romulan Empire that's been utterly destroyed because some writers wanted a bad guy to have dumb motivations.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I would've bought back Sela too. But I would've had her working with the TNG crew instead of opposing them, and it would be a rough partnership. But there would be a greater threat to the Romulans and Federation.

While she doesn't garner that much respect in the fandom, I would personally watch all of the episodes featuring her 10 times than watch Shinzon again. Plus if you had her in the story, you would be tying the film up with "Yesterday's Enterprise", probably showcasing that it was that alternate Yar's choice of going back that ultimately lead to the Federation's peace with Romulas. That would have been awesome.

But since they didn't do that, now we've got to deal with a Romulan Empire that's been utterly destroyed because some writers wanted a bad guy to have dumb motivations.

Couldn't they just move the Romulan capital to one of those colonies they no doubt have since they've been building and maintaining an empire for centuries?

 

[Admiral_Young]

I believe that in Star Trek Online after the Hobus star destroys both Romulus and Remus that the fractured Empire does relocate to a colony world.

 

[JarodRussell]

I would've bought back Sela too. But I would've had her working with the TNG crew instead of opposing them, and it would be a rough partnership. But there would be a greater threat to the Romulans and Federation.

While she doesn't garner that much respect in the fandom, I would personally watch all of the episodes featuring her 10 times than watch Shinzon again. Plus if you had her in the story, you would be tying the film up with "Yesterday's Enterprise", probably showcasing that it was that alternate Yar's choice of going back that ultimately lead to the Federation's peace with Romulas. That would have been awesome.

But since they didn't do that, now we've got to deal with a Romulan Empire that's been utterly destroyed because some writers wanted a bad guy to have dumb motivations.

Couldn't they just move the Romulan capital to one of those colonies they no doubt have since they've been building and maintaining an empire for centuries?

There's no rule that forces the next writer to stick to "canon". If they ever return to the post Nemesis TNG era, then I hope they completely ignore what happened in Abramstrek (and the tie-in literature and ST:Online) and continue with their own ideas. But I seriously doubt they will ever return. Two further Abrams/Orci/Kurtzman movies, and then TOS will be rebooted yet again (just look at Spider-Man), and if Trek isn't dead then, they will probably try to do a TNG reboot.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I believe that in Star Trek Online after the Hobus star destroys both Romulus and Remus that the fractured Empire does relocate to a colony world.

Yeah they do you even get to go on a mission there.

 

[JarodRussell]

I believe that in Star Trek Online after the Hobus star destroys both Romulus and Remus that the fractured Empire does relocate to a colony world.

Yeah they do you even get to go on a mission there.

Can I erase the movie from history when I manage to stop the Hobus supernova in Star Trek Online?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I believe that in Star Trek Online after the Hobus star destroys both Romulus and Remus that the fractured Empire does relocate to a colony world.

Yeah they do you even get to go on a mission there.

Can I erase the movie from history when I manage to stop the Hobus supernova in Star Trek Online?

You don't stop the nova, you only find out why it happened. Abrams made the movie deal with it and move on with your life.

 

[JarodRussell]

Yeah they do you even get to go on a mission there.

Can I erase the movie from history when I manage to stop the Hobus supernova in Star Trek Online?

You don't stop the nova, you only find out why it happened. Abrams made the movie deal with it and move on with your life.

Say it ain't so.