INS Holoship

[Bry_Sinclair]

Random thought occurred to me regarding the holoship from Insurrection. Is it a custom built ship or do you think it could've been the 24th century equivalent to an automated cargo ship? O'Brien did mention in "Babel" how he should've taken a transfer to a cargo drone, which means they are still in use by the late-2360s.

 

[thribs]

Someone in Starfleet like Worf's brother idea and so custom built the ship.
It was always a weird idea since relocating pre-warp civilizations violates the Prime Directive. Can't think of any other purpose for it other than a pleasure cruise.

 

[Dukhat]

Based on early concept art (where the ship had a more traditional saucer/nacelle combo), the intent seemed to be that the vessel was a standard Starfleet starship that was converted into a giant holodeck. I believe Data even mentions that the ship is Starfleet in the film.

 

[gerbil]

Based on early concept art (where the ship had a more traditional saucer/nacelle combo), the intent seemed to be that the vessel was a standard Starfleet starship that was converted into a giant holodeck. I believe Data even mentions that the ship is Starfleet in the film.

Of course, it’s possible he could tell from construction material/methods and maybe technology on board rather than recognizing the type of ship.

 

[Timo]

Might be. OTOH, the blocky shape is fine for a generic general cargo vessel - and the heroes can NOT tell at a glance that the ship would hold holographic secrets within, nor do they indicate the exact design to be unique or unrecognizable.

Not common or recognizable, either, of course. So we can read it either way. But designing and building a ship for the purpose seems excessive, considering we know the heroes can rig holo-villages aboard any random vessel. Or, say, erect a holo-room inside the office of a Romulan politician to fool said occupant! They really should have no need for a dedicated holoship.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Might be. OTOH, the blocky shape is fine for a generic general cargo vessel

That's kind of why the idea struck me. The shape lends itself well to hauling cargo and could easily have been refitted for nefarious purposes. I only went down the cargo drone route as that would make even more of the internal volume, with having less space needed for crew accommodations and facilities.

 

[Tenacity]

It was always a weird idea since relocating pre-warp civilizations violates the Prime Directive.

1) Only if we're following the Picard Directive of "let them all die."

2) The Baku weren't a "pre-warp civilization."

 

[matthunter]

2) The Baku weren't a "pre-warp civilization."

They were as far as anyone in Starfleet knew until Anij told Picard their history. The Sona hadn't revealed their connection even to the corrupt Admiral, and the researchers were using the pre-warp "duck blind" survey protocols.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

The Prime Directive has always required interpretation. Dougherty said it didn't apply here (and implied the Federation Council agreed, although it's hard to know how much we or they could really trust his word) because the Ba'ku weren't indigenous to the planet, and their immortality wasn't part of their "natural evolution." This may (or may not...does it?) contravene Picard's various interpretations in TNG, yet bears some resemblance to Kirk's in TOS.

-MMoM

 

[Tenacity]

They were as far as anyone in Starfleet knew

No. Only Picard and his crew were under the false assumption that the Baku were pre-warp.

The Federation Council knew the Baku immigrated to the ringed planet, and obviously so did the Son'a

 

[Dukhat]

No. Only Picard and his crew were under the false assumption that the Baku were pre-warp.

The Federation Council knew the Baku immigrated to the ringed planet, and obviously so did the Son'a

Yeah, the Son’a knew, but there’s nothing to indicate they told the Federation Council or Admiral Dougherty the truth about their origins.

 

[Timo]

...Save for Dougherty insisting that he knew and indicating that the Council knew, too.

(They didn't know the Ba'ku were the Son'a by another name, of course. But they knew they were aliens from outer space on their "own" planet.)

Everybody lied to everybody in that movie, which makes it so darn endearing. But apparently out of the duck blind team, only Data may have been under the false assumption that these were primitives and natives. Which makes one really wonder why Data was part of the team at all. Who insisted on that?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

Wasn't the holoship also equipped w/ a cloak? And wouldn't that not be allowed for a Starfleet vessel?

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Wasn't the holoship also equipped w/ a cloak? And wouldn't that not be allowed for a Starfleet vessel?

Could have been the result of an extension of the agreement with the Romulans that earlier allowed the Defiant to have one, during and following the Dominion War. (The Federation's embargo on Romulan ale had also been lifted as of "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" [DS9], although seemed to perhaps have been reinstated by Nemesis.) Or it could have be illicit, as had been that of the Pegasus.

-MMoM

 

[Tenacity]

Wasn't the holoship also equipped w/ a cloak? And wouldn't that not be allowed for a Starfleet vessel?

The cloak might have come from the Son'a, while it was aboard a Starfleet vessel it was Son'a property.

 

[Timo]

Or then there was no cloak. Just another holographic duck blind that wouldn't fool Romulan sensors for a millisecond, so they wouldn't care. They didn't bombard Earth for Data's wearing the holosuit, either.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

(You'll probably both have answers for these, but I'll point them out anyway, since I'm the quote guy. We all have our jobs to do here!)

The cloak might have come from the Son'a, while it was aboard a Starfleet vessel it was Son'a property.

If they didn't get permission from the Romulans (which it's perfectly possible they did, just like with the Defiant) then that would still violate the treaty (which it's also perfectly possible they did) if it was still in effect (which maybe it wasn't), as it banned not only the Feds' development of cloaking tech per "The Pegasus" (TNG), but also its use aboard Starfleet vessels per "These Are The Voyages..." (ENT):

RIKER: What do you know about the Treaty of Algeron?
TROI: 2311. It redefined the Romulan Neutral Zone.
RIKER: It also outlawed the use of cloaking technology on Starfleet vessels.​

Or then there was no cloak. Just another holographic duck blind that wouldn't fool Romulan sensors for a millisecond, so they wouldn't care. They didn't bombard Earth for Data's wearing the holosuit, either.

Picard refers to it as a "cloaked ship" and the holoship's own computer responds to commands to "decloak the vessel."

(I'd doubt that the Romulans wouldn't have bigger fish to fry in any case, though!)

-MMoM

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

Now I know why the Romulans were the antagonists over the following 2 films!

Also, people criticize STID for submerging the Big E, but clearly INS did it first!

 

[Markonian]

FWIW, in the novels the holoship is a Section 31 vessel. It’s ordered scrapped due to the INS events but hidden away by Commander Elias Vaughn to use it against S31 someday. (He dies and S31 is defeated elsehow, so the ship’s fate is unestablished).

 

[Tenacity]

in the novels the holoship is a Section 31

Another good reason to avoid the novels.