Wtf, how came Julian up with the exact stardate of the infection? It was explained that he calculated back from the velocity/extend of spreading within the body. However, it was stated that the development of the decease was accelerated by assuming different forms. How did Julian know, how often Odo shapeshifted over the years after the exam at starfleet? Do you have any reasonable explanation or was this just a (writing) oversight?
Infection date of the founders?
- Thread starter Reeborg
- Start date
It's 24th century medicine, its basically magic. Plus the computer did all the work and it's pretty magic too. As for it been a writing oversight, I don't think so. I think they decided when they wanted Odo to be infected and just put together a vague, medically sounding reason as to how Bashir found it out. In this case the journey wasn't that important, it was the destination of confirming the earlier suspicions of Starfleet/S31 complicity that mattered.
Given it goes all the way back to when it does puts a dampener on the theories Odo was cured when he was human and later reinfected by the Female Changeling, which is why he showed symptoms later than she/it did.
Given it goes all the way back to when it does puts a dampener on the theories Odo was cured when he was human and later reinfected by the Female Changeling, which is why he showed symptoms later than she/it did.
Last edited:
Exactly.
The actual technobabble on the issue wasn't too bad, though. It went like this:
Nothing there to indicate that Odo's personal behavior or other medical history would have affected the results. It's all based on Bashir knowing how the virus itself behaves, and that may be quite mechanistic and easy to calculate. Perhaps not down to a day, but...
Timo Saloniemi
Poor Laas.
Interesting tidbit my girlfriend thought of... What if Laas, who has to be infected as well, were to find one or more of the 100, and Link with them??
From the Relaunch, we now that after a few months after the show ends Laas joins Odo in the Great Link, but still, interesting thought really.
I've been of the theory that Odo was infected when he and Sisko were on Earth for "Homefront/Paradise Lost", that he infected the Founders in "Broken Link"--at this point, he was only a carrier--and that he got the full virus in "Behind The Lines", when he linked with the female changeling.
And how would this contradict the idea that Bashir can calculate the infection date out of data that is completely unrelated to any acceleration or deceleration of the symptoms? Those are two different and separate things: the spreading of the virus (the "increasing of the concentration") is something that happens at a set rate, while the symptoms caused by the presence of the virus are affected by the amount of shapeshifting but don't affect the concentration of the virus in the body.
Whether S31 calculated that Odo would shapeshift so seldom that he'd live long enough to be a practical carrier for the disease, or whether S31 somehow engineered the virus so that it would behave differently in Odo and in all those Odo would infect, we don't know. Both ideas are plausible, but the latter would best explain why Odo only started showing the symptoms after his Linking with the Female Founder, i.e. "infecting himself". He did shapeshift quite actively before that, as per the episodes we saw...
Timo Saloniemi
^If you think about it, there's a great deal of irony, in that theory:
In "Homefront/Paradise Lost", the Founders try to sabotage Earth society, and cause it to implode--and it is then that 31's plan to sabotage their society takes effect.
In "Broken Link", the Founders intend to impose "justice" on Odo--and it is then that 31's "justice" is imposed on the Founders, in turn.
And in "Behind The Lines", when Odo's linking with the F.C. results in an unwitting betrayal of Kira, his friends, and the entire Alpha Quadrant--he reaps an unwitting consequece: his contraction of the full disease.
In "Homefront/Paradise Lost", the Founders try to sabotage Earth society, and cause it to implode--and it is then that 31's plan to sabotage their society takes effect.
In "Broken Link", the Founders intend to impose "justice" on Odo--and it is then that 31's "justice" is imposed on the Founders, in turn.
And in "Behind The Lines", when Odo's linking with the F.C. results in an unwitting betrayal of Kira, his friends, and the entire Alpha Quadrant--he reaps an unwitting consequece: his contraction of the full disease.
Last edited:
Great observations. That's the icing on the cake for this timetable, isn't it? It really works from a dramatic viewpoint thanks to a good dose of seredipity. Almost as if the show's arc was planned out.
How fit Julians "calculations" into this?
What's the problem?
Let's assume there are two forms of the disease: one that is relatively harmless to Odo and allows him to infect all the rest of the Changelings, and one that is rapidly fatal. If Bashir is tracking the virus that Odo was originally injected with, back in "Homefront", then his calculations will reveal the injection date. Thosee calculations are unrelated to what Odo did in the meantime, what he ate, with whom he had sex or Link or raquetball, etc. They are also unrelated to Odo's possible contracting of the fatal version of the virus.
If Bashir tracks the fatal virus, then his calculations will show an injection stardate that coincides with the "behind the lines"/"collaboration" story arc. Since this isn't shown happening, Bashir isn't tracking that version of the virus. Which incidentally means he has no chance of developing an antidote since he's mistaken about the nature of the enemy. And of course it would make sense for S31 to devote a lot of research to making the fatal form invisible to most medical analysis, and less so to making Odo's "delivery version" invisible.
If we instead assume that there's only one virus, then Odo's Linking with the Female Founder apparently didn't do squat; it didn't increase the virus count in his body in any calculable manner. Which sort of makes sense, because at that point the virus would already be more or less everywhere, and the injection of a tiny number of new viruses would not make such a difference as the injection of a tiny number of extra viruses in an earlier stage.
Nothing wrong with the calculations, then. All they prove is that the turning of Odo into human didn't purge the original viruses from his body. Otherwise, they don't affect let alone contradict the story.
Timo Saloniemi
Let's assume there are two forms of the disease: one that is relatively harmless to Odo and allows him to infect all the rest of the Changelings, and one that is rapidly fatal. If Bashir is tracking the virus that Odo was originally injected with, back in "Homefront", then his calculations will reveal the injection date. Thosee calculations are unrelated to what Odo did in the meantime, what he ate, with whom he had sex or Link or raquetball, etc. They are also unrelated to Odo's possible contracting of the fatal version of the virus.
If Bashir tracks the fatal virus, then his calculations will show an injection stardate that coincides with the "behind the lines"/"collaboration" story arc. Since this isn't shown happening, Bashir isn't tracking that version of the virus. Which incidentally means he has no chance of developing an antidote since he's mistaken about the nature of the enemy. And of course it would make sense for S31 to devote a lot of research to making the fatal form invisible to most medical analysis, and less so to making Odo's "delivery version" invisible.
If we instead assume that there's only one virus, then Odo's Linking with the Female Founder apparently didn't do squat; it didn't increase the virus count in his body in any calculable manner. Which sort of makes sense, because at that point the virus would already be more or less everywhere, and the injection of a tiny number of new viruses would not make such a difference as the injection of a tiny number of extra viruses in an earlier stage.
Nothing wrong with the calculations, then. All they prove is that the turning of Odo into human didn't purge the original viruses from his body. Otherwise, they don't affect let alone contradict the story.
Timo Saloniemi
As a virus usually works is: infection ->multiplication->illness symptoms
Odo was infected by Starfleet. Before symptoms show, the concentration of the virus has to be higher than a certain level. Odo passed the virus onto the other changelings via "linking". Shapeshifting had the side effect that the virus was multiplying more quickly. That is why the founders showed earlier symptoms than Odo, since he shapeshifted rarely. When Odo had to shapshift all the time during the Cardi-resistance, then he quickly developed symptoms. How Julian could calculate under these conditions the (rather precise) infection date is beyond my understanding.
BTW: I meant infection date of Odo not the founders, the title might be misleading, sorry!
This was never established. Instead, it was merely said that shapeshifting worsened the symptoms of the disease - and this is quite possibly analogous to how one risks heart muscle failure by doing strenuous exercise while infected with some viral or bacterial disease. The exercise will not increase the number of pathogens as such, or affect their multiplication rate. It will simply kill you because your system already runs too hot due to the existing number of pathogens.
Symptoms and virus count need not be connected in any linear manner, and virus count need not be back-coupled to symptoms at all, allowing Bashir to do an exact backtrack calculation.
Timo Saloniemi
