Indy 4 still as infuriating as ever

[The Laughing Vulcan]

An Indiana Jones movie needs Nazis, not Thuggies and definitely not Commies. If they ever make another one, they'll have to use that old myth about escaped Nazis trying to rebuild the Fourth Reich in South America during the 60s.

Mmm, a Fate of Atlantis movie, and a plan to clone Hitler...

 

[Relayer1]

I like a few of his movies (Duel, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Indy 1 to 3) but on the whole, really don't like Spielbergs movies.

Two of my most disliked are the overrated CE3K and the utterly horrible E.T. I just don't see why they are so popular...

 

[Cmdr.Druss]

Temple
Raiders
Crusade
Kingdom

 

[AgentCoop]

I like a few of his movies (Duel, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Indy 1 to 3) but on the whole, really don't like Spielbergs movies.

Two of my most disliked are the overrated CE3K and the utterly horrible E.T. I just don't see why they are so popular...

E.T. I can take or leave (though my nine-year old self loved it), but I may have to fight you for dissing Close Encounters.

 

[mos6507]

Indy 4 just feels "forced". As a filmmaker you normally evolve and mature, and so to go back to the well and try to play your old riffs, even though you did it before, well, it's hard to make it come across quite so sincere as it was the first time. You're older and a different person. You begin to look at the world you created like a third party and you risk misunderstanding what it is you were trying to do in the first place. I got that vibe from the SW Prequels and some of that bled over into Indy 4.

There's a famous quote of Lucas when he was doing the remastered SW, the Jabba scene, where the animators had Han walk on Jabba's tail. Someone says "Do you think that's over the top?" And George says "You can't be too over the top in these sorts of movies." In other words: flat-out camp is not only welcome in SW, but there can never be too much of it. A misconception on his part, which led to stuff like Jar Jar and the Wacky Races two-headed announcer in Phantom Menace.

These things are ultimately lightning in a bottle and even the people who made it may not be able to recreate it no matter how hard they try.

 

[Captrek]

Temple
Raiders
Crusade
Kingdom

Is that a viewing order?

 

[Captain Craig]

Interestingly enough, the late & former U.S. President Ronald Reagan may well have been the inspiration behind TEMPLE of DOOM with one of his (no longer available) movies ...

http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?t=23266

"HONG KONG"
Starring: Ronald Reagan & Rhonda Flemming

Now I need to see this film for sheer curiosity on several levels.

 

[davejames]

There's a famous quote of Lucas when he was doing the remastered SW, the Jabba scene, where the animators had Han walk on Jabba's tail. Someone says "Do you think that's over the top?" And George says "You can't be too over the top in these sorts of movies." In other words: flat-out camp is not only welcome in SW, but there can never be too much of it. A misconception on his part, which led to stuff like Jar Jar and the Wacky Races two-headed announcer in Phantom Menace.

Yeah you definitely see a lot of that attitude in Indy 4. You get the sense Lucas thought that the 50s scifi theme gave him an excuse to insert as many cute and campy ideas into the movie as possible. And that there was no real point in taking the story seriously at all.

The fact his original story involved Indy chasing after ghosts in a haunted castle tells you all you need to know. He just seemed to forget entirely what made the original movies work so well. And that Indy still needs to live in a world that feels somewhat grounded and believable.

 

[Captrek]

Indy 5 should be a monster movie, with a mad scientist. And silhouettes of a janitor and two robots.

 

[Professor Zoom]

RAIDERS of the LOST ARK is the only "good" movie in the INDIANA JONES series. After that the decline in quality becomes more marked ...

This would be true if "The Last Crusade" wasn't clearly the best Indiana Jones movie.

Oh, you mean the cartoon version of Indiana Jones?

Never understand why people think Indy was 'dark' and 'badass' in Raiders.

Well, in Raiders, Indy KILLS a lot of people. Or is directly response for their deaths. And had no remorse. There's not a lot of him killing anyone in Kingdom. MAYBE a little responsible for the guy getting eaten by ants... but...

 

[doubleohfive]

The single biggest fault of KOCS is that it's a film made by two guys in their twilight years as opposed to trying to make the kind of film they made (and which benefited from who they were) in their youthful prime.

 

[TheMurph]

Of all the Indiana Jones movies, Kingdom is my least favorite. I don't hate it, but I haven't watched it in years, whereas with the others I usually catch on TV or pop in the DVD's from time to time.

I don't mind the story, I don't mind the fact that Indy and Marion are a bit different (though Marion comes across as someone who is high throughout the movie)... heck I don't even mind Mutt that much, though I would have preferred a different actor.

What I can't stand about the movie is the overuse of CGI. That terrible Jeep/Jungle scene being the worst in my opinion.

 

[Professor Zoom]

For me it's like the Star Wars prequels. I like them for the fact they make me feel like an 8 year old again.... BUT, I know it's not really all that great and so don't return to it very often.

 

[Tom]

If they wanted to do an Indy 5 it should be Old Indy (like what they did in the tv show) telling the tale of an adventure his 20 something year old self had in the 1920's. If you can get the right actor to play a 25 year old Indy it may work out great.

 

[CaptainCanada]

One of the biggest recurring criticisms of this movie, that aliens have no place in Indiana Jones, makes not the slightest bit of sense to me. Indy is a hero based on 30s serials; sci-fi was part of that genre, even if the earlier movies skewed more toward fantasy elements. By the time you get to the 50s, where the movie is set, sci-fi was by far the dominant genre in pulp-type entertainment.

I can see why people might dislike the aesthetic differences between the film and the preceding three, as we've moved from an era of practical effects to the CGI-heavy modern blockbuster style. And both here and in The Adventures of Tintin, Spielberg evinces a strong love of using that technology for really madcap action scenes.

 

[davejames]

It's also amazing how utterly predictable the movie is. The second we see the alien skull, we know the movie will end with Indy going to a temple and encountering some aliens. And there's never any doubt that Mutt will be revealed to be Indy and Marian's son at some point. Or that Mac will betray them once again.

With the other movies things weren't nearly so obvious from the start. I mean, you probably wouldn't expect Doom to end with Indy on a rope bridge of all things.

 

[Professor Zoom]

One of the biggest recurring criticisms of this movie, that aliens have no place in Indiana Jones, makes not the slightest bit of sense to me. Indy is a hero based on 30s serials; sci-fi was part of that genre, even if the earlier movies skewed more toward fantasy elements. By the time you get to the 50s, where the movie is set, sci-fi was by far the dominant genre in pulp-type entertainment.

This. He always seemed to reflect the popular adventure genre of the time the movie was set.

It makes a lot of sense to me that aliens are involved.

It's not the idea, I think it's the execution. If it had been a great movie, I don't think anyone would have cared about the aliens.

I can see why people might dislike the aesthetic differences between the film and the preceding three, as we've moved from an era of practical effects to the CGI-heavy modern blockbuster style. And both here and in The Adventures of Tintin, Spielberg evinces a strong love of using that technology for really madcap action scenes.

I wonder if there's also the fact that it's so easy to rematch Raiders and the originals, that maybe we are less forgiving of change. We want the thing that we loved. But, the people who made it, and we, of course, have all changed, but the object we loved hasn't.

Indy SHOULD'VE changed from the end of Crusade to Kingdom... people change over that amount of time...

But, then, again, maybe if he had changed in a way that we liked, that we connected to, then we wouldn't have cared.

It happened with the prequels and it happened with this, fans got excited to see their old friends again to be disappointed they didn't meet the expectations.

And so it will be with Episode 7. "That's not HAN SOLO!" Etc, etc.

 

[Aldo]

I'm not going to sit here and try to defend it to people who obviously dislike it, but I've never had a problem with the movie personally. In fact I really like a lot of it, and to me the Jeep Chase is the stand out set piece in the movie.

Is there over-reliance on CGI? Sure there is, and I wish it wasn't there. I'm also not fond of the glossy sheen the whole movie has which makes things appear more artificial then they are. But I enjoy the story, and I enjoy seeing Harrison playing Indy again.

I haven't done a proper re-watch of the series in ages, so I honestly can't say how Crystal Skull stacks up to the other films, but I never did (and still don't) think it's the horrible "child-raping" film that a lot of people like to make it out to be.

 

[Marsden]

I think if they seriously were to do an Indy 5, I think it should have him getting killed, not because I dislike him, but because I don't want to imagine Indy spending the last ten years of his life in a nursing home. Something cool and heroic, of course, nothing stupid like falling off a bridge. I think it would serve the story and the character, and I don't see Speilburg or Lucas having the guts (balls, whatever) to do something like that.

 

[Captrek]

I never did (and still don't) think it's the horrible "child-raping" film that a lot of people like to make it out to be.

It's childhood-raping, not child-raping. If you're going to quote nonsense, get it right.

I think if they seriously were to do an Indy 5, I think it should have him getting killed, not because I dislike him, but because I don't want to imagine Indy spending the last ten years of his life in a nursing home. Something cool and heroic, of course, nothing stupid like falling off a bridge. I think it would serve the story and the character, and I don't see Speilburg or Lucas having the guts (balls, whatever) to do something like that.

Well, we were talking about how the Indy stories mirror the popular entertainment of the time, Indy 4 mimicking the SF pulp entertainment of the 50's. Indy 5 should get us into the 60's... so he can simply regenerate into a younger actor.

Anyway, after his experiences with the Ark and the Holy Grail, death would be less appropriate than being carried away to Heaven in a chariot of fire.