Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Deimos Anomaly, Jun 29, 2012.
Pretty sure that's gonna be the endgame in A Song of Ice and Fire.
Plate armor is heavy, so you couldn't go fast or carry much, and you;d get tired quickly. And using a sword to chop off a head is actually pretty difficult what with all the vertebrae and tendons and muscles and other stuff.
But it would take a few minutes for the fire to destroy enough of the zombie's tissue to stop him, and in that time he'd be stumbling around, setting fire to other things. The risk of uncontrolled fire is too great.
Anyway, where would you get a flame thrower? They haven't used one as a serious weapon since the Vietnam war, I believe. The fuel is hard to get, and it's heavy, and once you are out of fuel it's just a very expensive and heavy back pack.
Best weapon is a crowbar. Light, smashes through skulls well and can be used as a tool as well as a weapon. best armor is a short haircut and tight clothes, make it harder to be grabbed.
Yeah; the comic version of The Walking Dead explored the modern day equivalent of this. The find some SWAT team riot gear and put it on. It ends up working pretty well.
I think WWZ posited pretty much exactly this.
You can buy a propane torch at most garden supply stores. That might do the trick (again, subject to the WWZ theory).
And if recall my reading of the Anarchist Cookbook and the Poor Man's James Bond accurately (it was about 30 years ago), a "real" flamethrower isn't that hard to make.
I'm just gonna leave this classic right here:
One of the better ones, I liked the idea of comparing "zombie-ism" to rabies.
As for the OP? Why not? Maybe because, you know, full suits of armor are fairly hard to comeby in the 21st century Western World.
Quick, the Zombie Apocalypse has just started and you want a suit of armor, where do you go?! It's Summer so there's no Ren Fairs in town, shopping malls and stores don't keep much in stock when it comes to suits of armor. You MIGHT be able to find one in a museum if you've a good enough museum nearby.
Seriously, where do you get one? I think you'd be better off getting one of those bite-proof suits people train police dogs in.
Well if you have a band of fighters, makeshift armor, shields and sword/chainsaws on the perimeter, an inner layer with long spears and and central firing squad with missile weapons (preferably rifles,) all in a hedgehog. When society gets reorganized, Macedonian phalanx tactics.
But taking this too seriously doesn't get the point of zombies, which seems to be fear of the mindless masses. Which means if they aren't too many right on top of "us" they aren't real, true zombie menaces.
The Zombie Survival guide, written by the same guy, is my Bible when it comes to all things zombie...
Not really accurate though. The ZSG refutes each one of the points.
The first point says that predators such as maggots etc will make short work of zombies. However, zombie flesh is highly toxic and most animals won't touch it. Only a few types of bacteria can break it down.
The second - that the heat of the sun will encourage bacteria to quickly rot the zombie's flesh, is related. Few types of bacteria can decompose zombie flesh because of its natural toxicity.
While the cold can freeze a zombie solid, once thawed, the zombie is back to its former self.Zombies will keep going even if their flesh is physically destroyed.
The fourth point is fairly valid, but biting isn't the only way it can be transmitted. Spraying material from shooting zombies, any open wounds... There are actually quite a few ways to be infected. If you are fighting a female zombie with long nails and she scratches you, you can get infected.
Again, the ability of a zombie to not feel pain and repair itself is one of their greatest disadvantages, but in generally day to day zombie activities (shuffling, biting and moaning), they don't get damaged much. And zombies can go on chasing you even if they have suffered damage that will kill a regular person.
The sixth point says that because zombies can't see in the dark they will eventually walk into things that will kill them. bear in mind that zombies aren't the visually based creatures we are. They use ALL available senses to know what is going on. They aren't going to die just because they don't see something.
The final point makes it clear how easy it is to kill them. But it actually isn't that easy. The only way to kill them is to destroy the brain. Getting a headshot is quite difficult. And it's even harder when you are facing down a swarm of zombies relentlessly shuffling towards you. Easier to shoot it in the body, but that won't do anything.
So that list isn't that accurate. It assumes that zombies are basically people, with the same strengths and weaknesses. They aren't.
I loved how at the end of Starship Troopers 3 they turned up in those kick-ass robo-suits. I thought 'thank fuck...finally someone's put two and two together and figured: no armor, bugs bite you in half. With armor; walk in the park.'
Not that this is a realistic event anyway, but I always laugh at most of these armour suggestions.
Put on some plate armour and then go jogging for an hour at a steady pace on a hot day. Then fall down and try to get up by yourself. Keep in mind you won't go through a hoard of zombies with a sword in less than an hour.
Now get some SWAT gear and go to a personal trainer and pay him extra to put you through a full aerobics workout and see how long until you pass out from dehydration.
Keep in mind pro athletes who wear protective gear are rarely in play for longer than 4-5 minutes at a time. But it's probably your best bet to go with the lightest weight hardpoint armour you can find that is breathable, likely hockey gear. Mix it with ballistic nylon/kevlar motorcyle gear that is breathable and flexible. Anything that is lighter and more breathable that can be substituted is an improvement. There is great gear for mountain biking that won't be too hot, but it doesn't cover 100% of the body.
Zombies don't shoot back, nothing has to be bulletproof, it has to allow free movement, not weigh you down, and not overheat you. The protection should be enough to protect from a large dog bite, or a rolling fall down a rough hillside.
Add a camelpack for water, which won't last forever, you have to figure on moving in and out fast, taking out a few each time. Full lightweight Coolmax underwear to keep you cool and prevent chafing. Boots can be lightweight workboots with composite armour soles and toes, or similar police issue or army surplus.
Leather will make you sweat like crazy, again try jogging in anything you have in mind, or at least imagine it.
I can refute the ZSG:
It's made up!
Using the ZSG to refute claims in other zombie fiction is ridiculous, it's like me using my Star Trek Technical Manual to explain that space travel in Stagate shouldn't work.
I love this quote so much I want to buy it presents and take it to meet my parents. It's the perfect blend of logic and nerdism. And I mean that with sincere respect and affection.
I remember in 28 Days Later, one of the characters was donning full riot gear complete with helmet and shield. I wondered why didn't everyone else put on similar clothing. One question: would kevlar body armor work? Can they be modified to cover the entire body?
Kevlar is very difficult to cut or tear, depending on how many layers or threads per inch. It is flexable fabric though, and a zombie has super strong jaws so the bone could be crushed even if the skin isn't broken.
Not an accurate description of a made-up plague?
At least that guide started from the point of imagining the zombie plague being something that happened to actual people. THe ZSG thing you quoted appears to have started with 'magic zombies' as its base. It refutes the first few points by saying that zombies are magically toxic...for some reason...
Trek and Gate are two different universes. But zombie movies and the ZSG are both talking about zombies.
But anyway, a lot of it is just common sense.
Given that zombies can infect other life forms with the zombie virus and given that they are insanely strong, predation on them is unlikely to work well.
The point about zombies freezing solid and rethawing in the cold rather than being destroyed by the cold still stands.
Likewise, my fourth point also still stands. The zombie disease, whatever causes it, will be transmitted by any infectious material, unless we are talking about voodoo zombies.
And likewise, zombies are regularly depicted as being able to withstand vast amounts of damage. When was the last time you saw a zombie killed by a shotgun blast to the belly?
And my point about it being fairly difficult to kill a Z also stands. Headshots and destruction of the brain are regularly depicted as the only way to reliably kill a Z. And that's not the easiest thing to do.
Have you actually read it? It makes it very clear that the zombies it describes are NOT magic.
It dismissed the first 3 (valid) points by saying that Zombies are toxic...for some reason. Essentially just saying they're magic. Where's that come from?
Did YOU read it?
The link you're trying to debunk treats Zombies as infected humans, with the same essential weaknesses, and moreso in some cases on account of being reanimated dead flesh. Yes, very strong, and a wound that kills a human only slows a Zombie down, but still starts with a human.
Whereas your link starts with making up new facts based on nothing, and then using them to debunk other things. Not a point in its favor.
As for your last points: why wouldn't predators have a field day? Zombies can't (usually) run, can't use weapons, aren't great tactical minds. Mostly just stumbling around. Why wouldn't large animals have unlimited free meals, once they realize the humans aren't shooting anymore, aren't ambushing or laying traps? Might not be 100% kill rate, but think the wolves/dogs/lions/etc have a field day there with free (rancid) meat.
Assuming no other zombie magic, and that zombies are just reanimated corpses that are strong and not reactive to pain/major damage, seems like the points in that link work a lot better than what you're quoting in ZSG...
The reason for it saying "for some reason", is because that is one thing that does vary from movie/book to movie/book. Sometimes, it bio-warfare that infects them, sometimes it's moon rocks, sometimes, it's just unexplained and characters believe it's Revelations with the dead walking the Earth. The rest of the Zombie are fairly consistent in modern Zombie stories (Must damage the brain to kill, bites or scratches infect you, etc.). About the only other important rule that varies is wether you turn into a Zombie upon natural death, versus being infected, and typically a natural death will also give you Zombie-itis in modern Zombie movies
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