In what episode does Odo...

[Arpy]

I just watched the episode in which Odo doesn’t declare his affection for Kira and she officially begins a relationship with Shakaar. I think it’s “Crossfire.” (Powerful episode, watching it now. I didn’t care for it when I was younger, but I find it rather moving today, if not “ideal” lol.)

What’s the episode in which things begin to turn the other way? I remember the road being a long one until they finally get together. The audience was there, a little perturbed, by the time they dramatically kissed on the promenade, I think it was. But when did it start to go that way? What’s the road to that?

 

[Tosk]

If you're asking when Nerys finds out how Odo feels, it's Children of Time.

 

[Arpy]

Thanks, Tosk. I'll make it my next ep.

 

[Arpy]

Marooned For 200 Years Odo murdered 8,000 people so that the love of his once life may live. Is that "Romantic," or is the Order Obsessed Changeling a Space-Nazi?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Odo displayed obsessive characteristics at this stage of the series. He ignored duties in Crossfire, and instead of finding Shakar's would-be assassin, he sulked for hours outside Kira's quarters. And when Kira and Rom were going to sabotage Damar's effort to dismantle the wormhole, he chose to link with the Founder.

 

[Farscape One]

Can it be considered murder if those people never existed to begin with? And really, the total is MUCH more than 8,000 since you have to count all those people born and died before them in those 200 years.

That has always been, to me, one of the best aspects of "CHILDREN OF TIME" was that very question. I think both sides can be argued and defended at the same time.

(A similar argument can be made for Annorax in VGR's "YEAR OF HELL" two-parter, but I will focus on this episode.)

 

[Mage]

Can it be considered murder if those people never existed to begin with? And really, the total is MUCH more than 8,000 since you have to count all those people born and died before them in those 200 years.

That has always been, to me, one of the best aspects of "CHILDREN OF TIME" was that very question. I think both sides can be argued and defended at the same time.

(A similar argument can be made for Annorax in VGR's "YEAR OF HELL" two-parter, but I will focus on this episode.)

Ending lives is ending lives. Simple as that. Right there and then, they lived. Thanks to the actions of one person, they didn't. The technical term, is mass murder.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Ending lives is ending lives. Simple as that. Right there and then, they lived. Thanks to the actions of one person, they didn't. The technical term, is mass murder.

As much as I think the episode shows something very dark about Odo, I disagree with this. Yes, leaving the planet would have caused them no longer to exist, which is different than death, but the action that caused them no longer to exist also did not happen. The temporal loop simply closed.

More importantly, it was universally recognized by the crew of the Defiant and the people on the planet that the Defiant could choose to leave. After male Dax's deception was revealed, each member of the crew was given the opportunity to veto staying. No one in the community begrudged them the choice. Most of the crewmembers were indifferent, but even O'Brien's resistance was enough to force the Defiant to leave. What about Odo? I mean the one in stasis: did he not have a choice? If he could come out to say, "I want to leave," it would not have been considered genocide. Everyone would have accepted the result. Can the older, more mature Odo speak for his younger self?

 

[Farscape One]

I have to agree here. I don't really consider it mass murder in this situation. The events that led to their creation in the first place were an accident.

To compare, I use Annorax and his temporal weapon ship. I consider him a mass murderer because he kept doing it over and over again for many years. And his actions affected millions, if not billions.

 

[Mage]

Each to their own I guess. Like I said earlier, ending lives is ending lives. Period. That's my point of view. Not saying it's the right one. Just saying it's mine.

 

[Arpy]

Uh, it absolutely is mass murder. Even if it's to save yourself, you are choosing to END the existences, the LIVES, of 8000 people who ARE alive right here and now. The idea that they never existed is nonsense. They DID exist, and they're existing RIGHT NOW when you CHOOSE to end them.

They all had the choice whether to stay or go because the idea is that one should not be forced to give up their own lives unless they so choose for themselves. The idea being that, what, somehow it's more cruel to demand someone give up their life so that multiple others may live. That's a "tough" one....if your neighbor had to die so that a billion people might live, would you kill them? What if Q assured you there'd be no further repercussions to the timeline?

Younger Odo didn't get a say because he was not reachable. Though, that's an interesting question. Would HE have given Kira up or only Older Bitter Odo? Would Kira have demanded to either of them that if they ever had any hope to be with her they should honor her by NOT becoming mass murderers?

 

[Tosk]

Odo displayed obsessive characteristics at this stage of the series. He ignored duties in Crossfire, and instead of finding Shakar's would-be assassin, he sulked for hours outside Kira's quarters. And when Kira and Rom were going to sabotage Damar's effort to dismantle the wormhole, he chose to link with the Founder.

He was also shown to be rigidly obsessive two episodes earlier, when he reacted badly to Dax moving things in his quarters. It's presented as comedy, but certainly adds to the "Founder-ness" of Odo's core. We knew he was a big justice nut, but it runs deeper than that.

 

[Farscape One]

Bringing order to chaos. That's the center of the Founders, Sisko even said so when he was doing a mock talk with Dax in "IN THE PALE MOONLIGHT". Odo, as a lawman, essentially does exactly that... brings order to chaos. Laws are designed to be that way, and he always was a stickler for the law. His job fit his personality perfectly.

 

[Tosk]

There's a very telling little bit of dialogue right near the start of the series where Odo tells Sisko, "Laws change depending on who's making them [...] but justice is justice..."

 

[mlbach]

If the Defiant hadn't left the planet, it's very possible that the Dominion would have won the war. We know that Jake would have been completely undone. 8000 vs millions. And the way Odo did it, he took the necessity of choosing from the rest of the crew. Kind of like Garak in ITPM.

 

[Arpy]

If the Defiant hadn't left the planet, it's very possible that the Dominion would have won the war. We know that Jake would have been completely undone. 8000 vs millions. And the way Odo did it, he took the necessity of choosing from the rest of the crew. Kind of like Garak in ITPM.

He wasn’t thinking about the war or anything else. He acted purely out of his own wants. If it weren’t a TV show, it wouldn’t have mattered that it was our super heroes.

And for all we know, they didn’t matter. What did Q say to Picard about his future in “Tapestry”? “You’re not that important.” And that’s friggin Jean-Luc Picard. I don’t know how accurate that assessment is, but maybe if Siskin & Co. didn’t make it, the war would have been won anyway. For all we know, with fewer casualties. ...infinite possibilities.