In 'Galaxy's Child', was Geordie a creep or just misunderstood?

[Oddish]

I have no real issue with anything that happened with the hologram... what happens in the holodeck stays in the holodeck. Geordi simply should have either erased holo-Leah when real-Leah came along, or made holo-Leah a restricted program that only he could access. I'm sure the holodeck controls will allow that.

 

[DonIago]

I'm very curious as to whether men and women tend to have different interpretations of the events of this episode.

While I think Leah made some assumptions and proceeded badly based on those assumptions, I also think they were understandable assumptions. I also think that realistically the 24th century equivalent of Starfleet HR likely would have become involved in this situation.

I also think Geordi went over the line especially with the dinner set-up. It may be an overstatement to say he planned to "seduce" her, but I think it's giving him far too much credit to say he wasn't trying to "set a mood".

I don't think he revisited the hologram after "Booby Trap", but I think it was a misstep on his part not to delete the hologram (or at least the personality bits the computer had extrapolated) after the fact. To apply what he'd "learned" from the simulation to his meeting with Brahms without her knowledge felt a bit manipulative to me. Perhaps it's more common in the age of Google and social media, but at the time, how many people really researched an individual before meeting them? Essentially he was engaging in social engineering. And in the end, he could have told been proactive and upfront about the situation, but he opted to withold the information he had and it bit him in the butt.

 

[Skipper]

While I think Leah made some assumptions and proceeded badly based on those assumptions, I also think they were understandable assumptions. I also think that realistically the 24th century equivalent of Starfleet HR likely would have become involved in this situation.

Yyyyyeeeep!

Although for the sake of argument we wanted to see Geordie's actions in the most favorable light possible, he is still at fault because Brahms was on the Enterprise to work, not on Risa to seek out some flings. And they made clear that his actions made her uncomfortable. A lot of people here said that we should excuse Geordie because is somewhat clumsy about romantic relationships, but the fact is that he isn't a kid who just hit puberty and was raised in a dysfunctional family.

He is an adult man, who is also a professional with important responsibilities and who should know what can and what cannot be done in the workplace (considering that he has at his command I don't know how many people too). Therefore it should be judged as such.

Female workers should be able to do their jobs safely, without their male colleagues feeling entitled to hit them, regardless of their marital status, sexual orientation or simply whether they have shown interest or not.

I work in IT, an exquisitely male-centered field, where I've seen too many stories like the one that happened in the episode. And, as happened here, a lot of people have always rushed to defend the poor misunderstood male colleague without thinking about how the target of his attention felt.

 

[Skipper]

And, at the risk of sounding repetitive, the big sin of the episode is having her ask for forgiveness from him. The authors clearly tell us that all (or nearly all) the blame is on Brahms' side. The only thing we get from Geordie is the classic non-apology apology.

I'm guilty of... reaching out to you, of hoping we could connect. I'm guilty of a terrible crime, Doctor: I offered you friendship.

Geordie, it is clear that you weren't just hoping for 'a friendship'. So that makes you a liar and a hypocrite. But even if that were the truth, you aren't entitled to automatically have the friendship of a person who works with you, so you aren't even entitled to feel offended if they don't give it to you.

 

[Skipper]

I suspect that people don't remember very well the scene. Here a snippet from this videoreview

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It was worse than I remembered. He actively tried to put the blame on her and gaslight her.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Well, to be fair to Geordi... none of what he said there was factually wrong.

[Transporter room]


CREWWOMAN: Doctor Brahms is ready to transport, sir.
LAFORGE: Okay, bring her over.
(Leah beams in)
LAFORGE: Hi. I mean, welcome aboard, Doctor Brahms. I'm Lieutenant Commander Geordi La Forge, Chief Engineer.
LEAH: La Forge. So you're the one who's fouled up my engine designs.
(and stalks past him straight out of the room)

On the other hand, Guinan on the other hand was right on the money here:

[Ten Forward]


(playing chess with Guinan)
LAFORGE: How could it have been so far off? It was based on every piece of information on record about Leah Brahms. Okay, with an admitted margin for error. but this is an error that's a light year wide.
GUINAN: Not what you hoped for, huh?
LAFORGE: Hoped? Guinan, the woman is about as friendly as a Circassian plague cat, only cares about her work, hates what I've done to her engines, and to top it off she's married. Computer never even told me she was married.
GUINAN: Computer glitch?
LAFORGE: Must have been.
GUINAN: Maybe it was your old visor.
LAFORGE: What are you talking about?
GUINAN: The one you wore when you were on the holodeck with her.
LAFORGE: Guinan, it's the same visor.
GUINAN: Really? Oh, I figured it was probably the one that lets you see what you want to see.
LAFORGE: What's that supposed to mean?
GUINAN: You saw exactly what you wanted to see in the holodeck. Sure, the computer made it look like her, gave it personality, but when it came to the relationship. La Forge, you filled in the blanks. And you had a perfectly wonderful, marvellous little fantasy. until the real Leah showed up and ruined it. She's probably done the most horrific thing one person can do to another, not live up to your expectations. So I'd take a good, hard, long look at her, La Forge. See her for who she is, not for what you want her to be.


Note: Both of those scenes are before Lela finds out about her holo-double and -- ignoring the context of the scenario (because apparently two people working together becoming attracted to each other is an alien concept to her that must have been imposed by Geordi for perverted reasons) -- starts laying into him and he loses his temper in return.

Then the episode ends with both of them, having achieved a more mature, rational view of both of their actions we get this:

[Ten Forward]


LAFORGE: Yeah, I admit it. I did get a little attached to that lady in the holodeck.
LEAH: The computer never told you that I was married?
LAFORGE: I never asked. And the computer is notorious for not volunteering information.
LEAH: You know, I really owe you an apology.
LAFORGE: No, you don't. I should have told you straight out.
LEAH: Well if you had, then I never would've got a chance to see the look on your face when you walked in on me and me in the holodeck.
LAFORGE: The look on my face? How about the look on your face? I will remember that for a long, long time.
LEAH: I wouldn't change a thing. Except for the way I behaved. I guess I came here with my own set of preconceptions about you.
LAFORGE: Well, I guess I'm just glad that I got the opportunity to get to know you. The real you.
LEAH: Me, too.
WORF [OC]: Worf to La Forge. There is an incoming message on subspace for Doctor Brahms.
LAFORGE: Acknowledged, Worf. La Forge out.
LEAH: My husband.

Now, personally I actually didn't like the suggestion -- because it could have been a different Leah -- from All Good Things that they did eventually get together as IMO it works better as a "friendship between contrasting equals" scenario although YMMV.

 

[Angry Fanboy]

Some of you folks need to get out more. That's what I think.

Whenever you're tempted to tell other posters to get a life, it's worth remembering that we're all just a bunch of nerds posting on a Star Trek messageboard in our free time.

 

[Skipper]

Whenever you're tempted to tell other posters to get a life, it's worth remembering that we're all just a bunch of nerds posting on a Star Trek messageboard in our free time.

Amen!

 

[Skipper]

because apparently two people working together becoming attracted to each other is an alien concept to her that must have been imposed by Geordi for perverted reasons

It's not "two people working together becoming attracted to each other"; it's "I'm attracted to this simulation of her, and I've decided that the real one will be attracted to me, even if she doesn't still know that".

 

[Mojochi]

And, at the risk of sounding repetitive, the big sin of the episode is having her ask for forgiveness from him. The authors clearly tell us that all (or nearly all) the blame is on Brahms' side. The only thing we get from Geordie is the classic non-apology apology.

The phrase "non-apology apology" denotes someone apologizing insincerely because they truthfully don't think they were at fault. The better term we use to use was a hollow apology

That's not what Geordi did. He told her that she owed him no apology because the blame was all his, & when he said it, he meant it. " I should have told you straight out" is what he said, suggesting he knows he was wrong to not tell her he had foreknowledge of her, he'd had a program featuring her, & had developed something of a crush on her. He admits that all wrongfulness was his

I'm not here to argue Geordi wasn't wrong. We all know he was wrong. They should've just named the episode "Geordi is wrong & we all know it" (including Geordi by the end) Hell, Guinan is pointing out that he's wrong 30 seconds into the episode. It's obvious.

But the main gripe about this apology business is that even though he earnestly accepts all the blame, people want to dismiss it as not an official apology because he didn't use the WORD apology in return, or throw him self at her feet & beg for her mercy, which is just incredibly petty.

You want to twist it to suggest he isn't accepting blame but he is. Please rewatch.

Brahms was on the Enterprise to work

Actually, she isn't there to do any work. Can we actually talk about why she did come there? Picard implies that Geordi's work is turning heads in a good way, & she is coming there because people back at HQ are impressed & genuinely interested to find out more about what unusual things he's been doing

Now whether that misdirection was on Leah herself is unclear, but I doubt anyone onboard would be accommodating to a guest who was coming to chastize the work of the flagship's celebrated & probably decorated chief of engineering. Who TF does she think she is exactly? & why would she think her criticisms & ensuing critisizing presence would be welcome? Frankly, if Geordi doesn't already have affinity for her, does she even get her foot in the door? Who cares about some designer's opinion? We got actual work to do.

This is the main reason she apologizes. Her whole reason for being there at all was an affront, & under false pretense. It did also seem to apply to her outburst about the program too... & if it did, then that's why Geordi refuses it, with a proclamation of the blame being solely his. They maturely forgive each other for any transgressions

Now, if you want to deride the writers for forcing her to offer an apology 1st... or give one at all, that's your prerogative, but I actually think it showcases her as being potentially MORE thoughful & intelligent in encouraging the apology she was owed (and got) by greasing those wheels conversationally.

 

[DonIago]

^This reads dangerously close, to me, as, "Brahms wasn't actually in a professional relationship with Geordi, so she deserved what she got."

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

It's not "two people working together becoming attracted to each other"; it's "I'm attracted to this simulation of her, and I've decided that the real one will be attracted to me, even if she doesn't still know that".

I disagree. However, I will accept:

"I worked well with and was bit attracted to this simulation of her, and I'm excited to find out if that will extend to the real person once she knows that."

Geordi might have pushed a bit hard to try and salvage the situation in the place of her hostile and condescending demeanour towards her assignment to learn from him, but as soon as she made it clear that she wasn't interested in friendship much less romance he backed off and didn't mention the matter again until she stumbled on the simulation and started accusing of being a stalker and effectively a rapist by proxy.

 

[Mojochi]

^This reads dangerously close, to me, as, "Brahms wasn't actually in a professional relationship with Geordi, so she deserved what she got."

Well, that's a huge reach, & vastly exaggerated mischaracterization, & not what I'm saying at all.

What I said was she's there under false pretense, the result of which is a poor interaction, & he's got some inappropriate attitudes/behavior happening as well & they also & separately contribute to a poor interraction, & that both choosing to own a little admission of fault for each might be merited

 

[Skipper]

Actually, she isn't there to do any work. Can we actually talk about why she did come there? Picard implies that Geordi's work is turning heads in a good way, & she is coming there because people back at HQ are impressed & genuinely interested to find out more about what unusual things he's been doing

I'm sorry we are really discussing semantic here? Obviously he was not on board either for pleasure or for a vacation. She had to do a professional activity, because her profession is designing engines. She had to study the modifications made to engines, and this is a part of her job.

It almost seem a way to undermine her. "Look, she wasn't really working, so Geordi had carte blanche!"

 

[Vger23]

Whenever you're tempted to tell other posters to get a life, it's worth remembering that we're all just a bunch of nerds posting on a Star Trek messageboard in our free time.

Amen!

OMG relax

 

[Oddish]

I don't think it's still active, but we had a "worst character assassination" episodes topic active for awhile. And, this one was applied to Geordi. Instead of the nice, caring, empathetic guy he normally is, he was played as a guy who pushed his unwanted romantic attentions on an unwary target who wasn't interested, and then acted like he'd done nothing wrong when she discovered what was apparently a sex fantasy about her.

Geordi was in the wrong in this episode, and in a big way. The only thing Leah did that I had an issue with is walking in and just outright accusing him of screwing up her engine designs. Not nice, but not creepy.

 

[Orphalesion]

OMG relax

Okay, okay. Maybe you don't know it. So it's not really your fault.
But...well...generally speaking...at least in most cultures... jokes are meant to be funny.
But don't be discouraged; now that you know that,if you practise real hard, some day you might tell an actual joke

 

[Mojochi]

I'm sorry we are really discussing semantic here? Obviously he was not on board either for pleasure or for a vacation. She had to do a professional activity, because her profession is designing engines. She had to study the modifications made to engines, and this is a part of her job.

It almost seem a way to undermine her. "Look, she wasn't really working, so Geordi had carte blanche!"

Again, that's not what I'm saying, & why I only quoted the one segment & in hindsight, I probably shouldn't have. I should've just said my piece without a quote

My point was that she wasn't there in good faith either, which is also unprofessional, & thereby merited the apology that other people here thought she shouldn't have had to give. No one expected her visit to be a condemnation of his work, or she'd never have been invited

However, I am not suggesting, nor have I ever, that this forgives Geordi's wrongfulness, which he also admits.

I do think that wrongfulness is overblown though, because all he did was invite her to a private dinner, to get to know one another, which clearly wasn't just professional. It was social, & she agreed to it, because she understood that she'd been treating him poorly from the start, which was not why she was invited there, & why she conveyed that changed attitude during the dinner

When the subtle hint that he might be interested in her came up, she politely excused herself

When she then got an inaccurate impression of the program, his chief wrong was in how he handled that. She was wrongfully accusing him of having done things he didn't do, & those accusations made him react impulsively & let his own attitude get away from him, instead of how he should've handled it, by attempting to deescalate her anger, & offering an apology for how this came out to her, because I still don't think he actually owes an apology for the program itself.

The computer did that, & his feelings that came from it are a separate issue, which he wasn't too terribly inappropriate about with her IMHO. At the end of the day, he just wanted her to like him, & it all fell apart into a shit show of unfortunate turns & bad reactions

 

[Skipper]

I do think that wrongfulness is overblown though, because all he did was invite her to a private dinner, to get to know one another, which clearly wasn't just professional. It was social, & she agreed to it, because she understood that she'd been treating him poorly from the start, which was not why she was invited there, & why she conveyed that changed attitude during the dinner

Perhaps we are remembering differently, it wasn't just a social dinner. Here he tried to manipulate her and lied to her.

Using Candido's words:

La Forge learned from the re-creation in “Booby Trap” that Brahms likes fungili. When he offers her dinner in “Galaxy’s Child” he offers her fungili. Brahms is suprised, and says, “I love fungili.” La Forge’s answer is to feign surprise and say, “Really?”

He doesn’t say, “I know, I did a little research on you and found that out.” He lies to her and misleads her and makes her think that he came up with that totally on his own and look, doesn’t that make us simpatico, because I also like fungili just like you, and we should totally have sex now.

That’s why La Forge’s behavior is so awful. Not because of his fantasies, not because of his thoughts — though if it’s not such a big deal, why was he so guilty and nervous about letting Brahms see the simulation from “Booby Trap”? — but because of his actions.

And after that, he still lied to her, with all that "just friendship" BS.

Yes, she was rude. So what? Geordie is somewhat justified?

It has happened (fortunately not often) that I have had to do short-term jobs with less than pleasant people. Usually in these cases I just bear it and try to get to the end of the activity. If the other person's behavior made it difficult to finish the job, I would address it with him / her or, depending on the situation, with my supervisor. If that fails, I would probably write an email to HR or similar as a last resort.

But never, never, never, I would think the situation justified me trying to get into his/her pants.

Geordi uses Brahms’ earlier rudeness to get himself out of the situation when he’s caught. Yes, Geordi, you have some explaining to do. And yes, she was rude to you. But that has nothing to do with holo Brahms now, does it? They’re different issues.

 

[Oddish]

Found the topic. And even though "Galaxy's Child" wasn't the first episode mentioned, I can tell you that it did, in fact, inspire the creation of the topic in the first place: https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/worst-character-assassination-episodes.307981/