IMHO, the Worf Character....
- Thread starter Photon
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I think DS9 easily stands alone, in that it didn't need Worf or the storyline, however, I have to say that I loved him on DS9.
We live in a klingon-centric household over here...I mean we do have a cat named Martok, so I may be biased, but I think the subtle evolution of Worf's sense of humor was a delightful thread. I also think his character improved and began to stand out. His role in TNG was excellent, but sometimes I felt his storylines were forced in TNG. He seemed a more natural fit on DS 9.
I know a lot of people don't...but I also enjoyed his relationship with Jadzia Dax. Just reminds me that regardless of what your species may be...some interactions are just universal.
Cheers,
V.
We live in a klingon-centric household over here...I mean we do have a cat named Martok, so I may be biased, but I think the subtle evolution of Worf's sense of humor was a delightful thread. I also think his character improved and began to stand out. His role in TNG was excellent, but sometimes I felt his storylines were forced in TNG. He seemed a more natural fit on DS 9.
I know a lot of people don't...but I also enjoyed his relationship with Jadzia Dax. Just reminds me that regardless of what your species may be...some interactions are just universal.
Cheers,
V.
^ITA!
Frankly, DS9 fixed a major flaw in Worf's character: namely, the "enemy beats Worf so we know it's tough" gag.
In TNG, when Worf fights someone--75 to 90% of the time, he's knocked flat. For all the talk on the show about his being a great warrior and fighter...he almost always loses miserably. Note "Conspiracy". When the possessed Admiral Quinn fights Riker, it takes a much longer time to knock out Will--when he's thrown across the room, Riker is still concious and calls security. With Worf, however--when he's thrown across the room in the exact same manner--he's out for the count, and it's up to Dr. Crusher to zap Quinn.
In DS9--that all changed, to the legendary point of having him fight and beat all the Jem'Hadar unit's best fighters in "By Inferno's Light".
And for that...I will always be grateful.
Frankly, DS9 fixed a major flaw in Worf's character: namely, the "enemy beats Worf so we know it's tough" gag.
In TNG, when Worf fights someone--75 to 90% of the time, he's knocked flat. For all the talk on the show about his being a great warrior and fighter...he almost always loses miserably. Note "Conspiracy". When the possessed Admiral Quinn fights Riker, it takes a much longer time to knock out Will--when he's thrown across the room, Riker is still concious and calls security. With Worf, however--when he's thrown across the room in the exact same manner--he's out for the count, and it's up to Dr. Crusher to zap Quinn.
In DS9--that all changed, to the legendary point of having him fight and beat all the Jem'Hadar unit's best fighters in "By Inferno's Light".
And for that...I will always be grateful.
Dittos....Sisko Channeled Bad Ass Through Worf
My Worf-facepalm moment was in Qpid when Worf takes on the portly Sir Guy and gets knocked down. Sure, Worf gets up, but Picard is forced to call a retreat, and the look on Worf's face that Sir Guy got away spoke volumes. I mean, no way Worf would ever lose to that guy, NO WAY.
With that said, while I'm glad that DS9 gave Worf the combat feats he should've had from the start, I'm also glad the show developed his sense of humor and personality a bit more. He's still the loyal, fiercely devoted Worf we've always known, but now he's not so stiff and he seemed to act more comfortable than before. The latter I'd chalk up to just character evolution and the fact that Dorn had played him for years, it just happened on DS9.
Strangely enough, I didn't like his relationship with Jadzia, but I greatly enjoyed the way his character played off the other regulars: nostalgia with O'Brien, his respect of Odo and Kira, the stature he held over Bashir, his deference to Sisko, etc. Some relationships could've been better developed (Odo and Worf in particular), but it was nice to see a different team dynamic. Sometimes I like to juxtapose TNG and DS9 using Worf as the center of two circles, and it goes to show that the two crews weren't carbon copies and weren't interchangeable -- they were both unique and competent in their own right.
I disagree. Worf gave DS9 a peek into Klingon Culture. We got to see the command structure of the ship (without the danger in A Matter of Honor), a Klingon marriage, Worf's spirituality, etc. The Klingon storylines strengthened Deep Space Nine, especially with the invasion of Cardassia. It was a reason to bring Worf onto the show, but the Klingons made it easier for us to understand the Cardassians joining the Dominion and added a wrinkle by making the Cardassians opressed, something that comes to all the powers of the Quadrant throughout this series. Martok was a strong addition to the recurring characters and he never would've been there without Worf.
Meanwhile Worf finds more peace on DS9 than he ever had with the TNG crew. He works through the issue of "having to choose between the Klingons and the Federation." He keeps his personal honor and becomes a respected member of the House of Martok.
My Worf-facepalm moment was in Qpid when Worf takes on the portly Sir Guy and gets knocked down. Sure, Worf gets up, but Picard is forced to call a retreat, and the look on Worf's face that Sir Guy got away spoke volumes. I mean, no way Worf would ever lose to that guy, NO WAY.
With that said, while I'm glad that DS9 gave Worf the combat feats he should've had from the start, I'm also glad the show developed his sense of humor and personality a bit more. He's still the loyal, fiercely devoted Worf we've always known, but now he's not so stiff and he seemed to act more comfortable than before. The latter I'd chalk up to just character evolution and the fact that Dorn had played him for years, it just happened on DS9.
Absolutely.
I agree on wishing there was more Odo and Worf. The two of them talking about order and how to treat bores was absolute gold.
With Bashir, though...I didn't see it as "stature" over him. Frequent was the instance when Bashir acted a lot more mature than Worf--"Shadows And Symbols" and "Afterimage" comes to mind.
Frankly, if Bashir is a "child" in Worf's eyes...our Klingon friend is guilty of projection. Worf is often a proverbial four-year-old. He's cool, don't get me wrong...but often immature.
Productively, the addition of Worf didn't work. DS9's ratings did not improve, and we all know that in the TV industry characters are added to boost ratings.
Artistically, it did improve it somewhat. We saw more development of Klingon culture and more of the essence of the Worf character (stuck between his Klingon heritage and his life in the Federation). That said, I preferred TNG Worf to DS9 Worf. Of course the basic traits were the same, honour-bound, stoical, a man a few words. But Worf in DS9 was sometimes too grumpy and mopey, something that wasn't there in TNG.
I think it's because in TNG, Worf was one of the major comic characters, along with Data to some extent. Because Worf is a stoical character, placing him in comic situations or giving him comic lines melds well with the stoicism. In DS9, most comic material was cited via Quark, and the Ferengi in general.
Artistically, it did improve it somewhat. We saw more development of Klingon culture and more of the essence of the Worf character (stuck between his Klingon heritage and his life in the Federation). That said, I preferred TNG Worf to DS9 Worf. Of course the basic traits were the same, honour-bound, stoical, a man a few words. But Worf in DS9 was sometimes too grumpy and mopey, something that wasn't there in TNG.
I think it's because in TNG, Worf was one of the major comic characters, along with Data to some extent. Because Worf is a stoical character, placing him in comic situations or giving him comic lines melds well with the stoicism. In DS9, most comic material was cited via Quark, and the Ferengi in general.
Sure, but Bashir is definitely NOT the one member of the crew that's gonna call out Worf on that, lest he end up on the receiving end of a bat'leth sandwich
Yeah, I agree with this. To me, Worf was a better on TNG because
1) he was actually unique on that show, a contrast in personality and values to every other character. That's not the case at all on DS9, where Odo is very similar both in personality and values and even in the situation of being an exile from his people at various points. Kira and Worf aren't all that different either.
2)Worf is written as much grumpier and broodier on DS9
3) I didn't like the Worf/Jadzia thing(though I didn't like the Worf/Troi thing either
I thought we got a lot more Klingon exposure through DS9, whereas on TNG it was simply Worf ranting about how Klingons do this and that. I hated his relationship with Jadzia, they seemed more like brother and sister than actual mates. I felt his relationship with K'Ehleyr was much better - too bad they had to kill her off just so he could kill Duras...although we'll see her character in B'lanna.
Worf was much more loyal and fanatical to Picard than to Sisko i felt, he was kind of a wussy on DS9 as a Starfleet officer. He was more himself when he was in KDF uniform.
Worf was much more loyal and fanatical to Picard than to Sisko i felt, he was kind of a wussy on DS9 as a Starfleet officer. He was more himself when he was in KDF uniform.
I was initially stoked about Worf coming to DS9 and I really liked his introduction. But I felt that his time there was mostly superfluous. I think he got lost in the shuffle a bit, but the writers eventually found something for him to do, pairing him with Jadzia, and I do think he shined more during the Dominion War. I also liked his relationship with Ezri. I thought that was well done.
Overall I just think he was a better fit on TNG because he stood out more. On DS9 he didn't seem that much different than a lot of the characters on there.
Overall I just think he was a better fit on TNG because he stood out more. On DS9 he didn't seem that much different than a lot of the characters on there.
Worf was a favorite of mine before he came to DS9, but I preferred his portrayal on DS9 over TNG. On TNG he was honestly little more than the "noble savage" and comic relief. On DS9 he actually becomes an integral part of the crew, essentially taking over as 1st Officer on board the Defiant. There was no way he was going to step out of Riker and Data's respective shadows on the Enterprise.
They may have over done his prowess as a warrior. He was pretty much the greatest Klingon warrior since Kahless, by the time the show wrapped, but I can forgive that.
They may have over done his prowess as a warrior. He was pretty much the greatest Klingon warrior since Kahless, by the time the show wrapped, but I can forgive that.
Worf coming to DS9 helped maintained a strong TNG and DS9 audience, which kept the show in a good position on the rating system.
^
Really I've always read that his inclusion didn't do much to halt DS9's ratings erosion. I can understand the theory, but I don't know if it actually worked.
I was speaking more from a creative standpoint. I don't think they had much to do with him, but thankfully he never took over the show like Seven of Nine did on Voyager. And there were some good Klingon and war episodes that I thought Worf added to. I also liked Dorn in Far Beyond the Stars.
Really I've always read that his inclusion didn't do much to halt DS9's ratings erosion. I can understand the theory, but I don't know if it actually worked.
I was speaking more from a creative standpoint. I don't think they had much to do with him, but thankfully he never took over the show like Seven of Nine did on Voyager. And there were some good Klingon and war episodes that I thought Worf added to. I also liked Dorn in Far Beyond the Stars.
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