I'm starting to think they don't want to get home...

[The Overlord]

I think the problem with Voyager is it felt like Gilligan's Island in space after a while. The Voyager crew find some way to get home, they screw it up somehow and they are back to square one. There should have some arc about them getting home, at least during the last season. Perhaps Q having perform some test in order to get home or the crew looking for some fabled item that would let them get home.

Instead future Janeway comes out of nowhere, gives them super tech and tells them about the Borg Transwarp Hub. No build up or anything. That is not good story telling.

 

[MacLeod]

^Well I'm no fan of the finalé but no matter what they did for a finalé a certain percentage of the audiance would be unhappy with it.

They could have fast forwarded to x years in the future and shown VOY getting home.

They could have been really bold and done a QL type ending after the last episode saying either they never got home or it took x years. But that would really have gotten the fans into a frenzy.

 

[matthunter]

The cryogenic stasis idea doesn't wash. They had a hard enough time convincing the Romulan to relay a message, let alone beam their entire crew to his scout ship (likely not much larger than the one we saw Admiral Jarok piloting in The Defector), so even if they could all fit, they would thus be easily able to capture it (he would assume).

Then even if he does agree, would Voyager's crew really trust that he wouldn't either accidentally or purposefully reveal the existence of 150 Starfleet popsicles to Romulan High Command, who given the possibility that these folk are actually from a few decades in the future, wouldn't immediately warm up both them AND the agonizer implants?

 

[Sindatur]

Yea, it definitely would've been better had they planned out in advance, that some technology would be found every season that cut 10 years off their voyage (IE: Kes, Seven, wormhole, slip stream, and then maybe let them tackle the Transwarp hub on their own for the last leg, without the Admiral coming out of nowhere).

Arc'ed TV shows are really difficult to plan out in advance though. If you don't have the ratings, you get cancelled before your arc can be fully realized. If you do end up with a hit, the Network will force you to keep the show going as long as you have the ratings, often forcing you stretch things out and insert filler, which kills your ratings, and then, if you're lucky enough to get enough warning, you have to skyrocket through the remainder of your arc.

It would be so much easier on everyone, if a show makes it past S1, the Producers and Network could agree upon a set Series length, that they live by regardless of the results (Mega hit ending in 5 years or low rated show they need to to continue financing 3 years after they would've typically cancelled).

Of course, the network would never agree to this, and it could definitely be financially painful in the short run, but, if the audience knew up front (or at least after it made it through S1) that a show was going to be a definite set length of time, audience loyalty just might shore up better

 

[MacLeod]

^Tne networks only have themselves to blame, if they keep cancelling genre show after 1 season, a part of the audiance becomes unwilling to invest their time in a show they expect to be cancelled.

 

[R. Star]

^Well I'm no fan of the finalé but no matter what they did for a finalé a certain percentage of the audiance would be unhappy with it.

They could have fast forwarded to x years in the future and shown VOY getting home.

They could have been really bold and done a QL type ending after the last episode saying either they never got home or it took x years. But that would really have gotten the fans into a frenzy.

I'll agree with Endgame being disapointing to say the least. At first I was thrilled with the teaser of an older Janeway celebrating the aniversary of Voyager's return home. That would have brought the series to closure and given a great epilogue about how they all moved on with their lives.

Then yeah... Janeway travels back in time, gives them GODMODE technology so they can beat the Borg and get back all with the wave of a hand. Really? That's the best the writers could come up with? The absurdity of Voyager just casually flying past Borg Cubes blowing them up as if it were a cheap video game was just facepalming.

Couple the cliche time travel with superman technobabble along with lack of ANY epilogue whatsoever, and you get Endgame. I like how selective that futuristic time travel enforcement agency is with Voyager episodes too. Once again Janeway does consistently demonstrate that she'll break the rules to get what she wants though, no matter how preachy she is about them.

They really had the right idea with the future scenes. Have the crew remininsicing the journey home years later, you could see them overcome new obstacles via flashback and finally get home to a huge celebration, and how they had all moved on with their lives. Really the only people this would have frustrated was novel writers being that would set a lot in stone, but even that could be worked around for em.

 

[MacLeod]

^Thats one of my issues with "Endgame" they introduce for lack of a better term a Temporal Integrity Commission. Janeway's meddling in the timeline by brining VOY home 16 years early than it should hvae been. Should have gotten them invovled and corrected the timelne so VOY returns when it orignally did before Janeway's meddling in time.


At the bare minimum VOY should have been internal consistant with itself. I.e you introduce a Time Police, then you had better live with the consequences and restraints you yourself have applied.

 

[Guy Gardener]

But it was internally consistent.

They introduced us to a bipolar irascible Captain with a martyr complex, and in the final all she's doing is lying and arguing with herself until she finally finds a suicide kick worth perusing that might actually work.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^Thats one of my issues with "Endgame" they introduce for lack of a better term a Temporal Integrity Commission. Janeway's meddling in the timeline by brining VOY home 16 years early than it should hvae been. Should have gotten them invovled and corrected the timelne so VOY returns when it orignally did before Janeway's meddling in time.


At the bare minimum VOY should have been internal consistant with itself. I.e you introduce a Time Police, then you had better live with the consequences and restraints you yourself have applied.

Who says the TIC doesn't originate in the post-"Endgame" future? If they interfered with that, they'd be rewriting their own past.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Actually.

Each 29th century resultant from either Janeway arriving home after 7 years, and after 21 years would have temporally shielded ships, bases and planets as well as installations that are completely outside of time and cannot be effected by changes to any timeline connected or disconnected to these 29th century Time cops.

Each faction can mount an offensive to draw their timeline into dominance by making even more changes against the past to course correct.

Something like Endgame can only happen if there a serious change to the balance of power outside of time.

 

[Parrots_United]

The cryogenic stasis idea doesn't wash. They had a hard enough time convincing the Romulan to relay a message, let alone beam their entire crew to his scout ship (likely not much larger than the one we saw Admiral Jarok piloting in The Defector), so even if they could all fit, they would thus be easily able to capture it (he would assume).

Then even if he does agree, would Voyager's crew really trust that he wouldn't either accidentally or purposefully reveal the existence of 150 Starfleet popsicles to Romulan High Command, who given the possibility that these folk are actually from a few decades in the future, wouldn't immediately warm up both them AND the agonizer implants?

The Romulan science officer said he would be willing to obtain a more suitable vessel for carrying that amount of people.
Also, Yes, the crew can trust the Romulan science officer. He sympathized with the crew, and there was no need for distrust. I am aware the most Romulans shown are deceptive, but the science officer in The Eye of the Needle was an exception.



Now that I think about it, in False Profits, the wormhole apparently cycles around every 8 years, so why didn't the crew just wait on a class M planet near that sector for 8 years rather than continuing the hard way to the alpha quadrant? I know they end up getting home in 5 years after that, but why take the risk of spending 68 years on your voyage home, when you could get home with certainty in 8?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Where did you get 8 years from?

What actually happened was that the Ferengi this time maliciously and accidentally unspooled the other end of the wormhole too, so that the exit was no longer fixed to the Barzan System, and completely random on bother ends.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

I actually just finished watching "False Profits" about thirty seconds ago. Hadn't seen it since it aired when I was a kid.

Kinda hurt my head a little.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I always wondered what happens when everything that would usually explode during an orgasm, instead imploded.

 

[Parrots_United]

Where did you get 8 years from?

What actually happened was that the Ferengi this time maliciously and accidentally unspooled the other end of the wormhole too, so that the exit was no longer fixed to the Barzan System, and completely random on bother ends.

Maybe I am remembering it wrong, but I remember them staying that the side of the wormhole on the alpha quadrant side was stable, but the side in the delta quadrant jumped to several thousand different locations, but cycled back every 7-8 years.

 

[Guy Gardener]

NEELIX: The Grand Nagus knows all about your little scheme, the 'Song of the Sages' and all the rest of it. Very clever. But he wants you and all your acquisitions back on Ferenginar before the wormhole closes again.
ARRIDOR: I'm sure the Grand Nagus wouldn't want to lose such a lucrative revenue stream. The wormhole seems to open and close on its own every seven or eight years. We would be willing to forward a fair share of the profits every time it does, say, 20 percent?

They'd been dumped in the DQ eight years ago.

Those two hadn't had the time to extrapolate much of a pattern.

Although I suppose the locals who appeared to be living in the 16th century, might have been avid astronomers?

 

[Anwar]

The problem is that they didn't have a premise beyond "Lost ship going home" and thus none of their attempts could really succeed. Thing is, they should have realized this and just not told those stories in the first place.

And maybe if they had a real plot beyond the "Get home" storyline to dedicate time and effort to, then there's something to work with.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tom Paris had a Prime Directive.

He dated almost every woman on that ship.

Think about it.

Tom and Harry must have dated both DeLanney sisters, switched and dated them again, for harry to be into the wrong twin.

 

[MacLeod]

Even with twins a person could be more attracted to one than the other.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Which is exactly what happened on screen. You don't remember the episode?

Harry didn't want the twin who was hopelessly crushing on him. Harry wanted the twin who was making out with Tom.