If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done differently?
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Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
All Ferengi are gay (there's a rule of acquisition which states that you must always sleep with the boss. Factor in that women re barred from business. It's a no brainer.). Neelix pretended to be Ferengi. Ergo Neelix pretended to be Gay. But since he was only pretending, do you think that Neelix really pulled it off playing a gay alien?
In scientific method when kathy suggested banning sex, well, sexuality and more precisely pdas, do you think she was talking about gay Sex and gay sexuality and gay PDAs too? And what about Chakotay talking about how they needed babies for replacement crew? What about single people, the infertile and the gays? Would there have been any recrimination involved or congratulatory for crew who didn'twant to feed the ship crewlings like you feed a steam engine lumber?
All Ferengi are gay (there's a rule of acquisition which states that you must always sleep with the boss. Factor in that women re barred from business. It's a no brainer.). Neelix pretended to be Ferengi. Ergo Neelix pretended to be Gay. But since he was only pretending, do you think that Neelix really pulled it off playing a gay alien?
In scientific method when kathy suggested banning sex, well, sexuality and more precisely pdas, do you think she was talking about gay Sex and gay sexuality and gay PDAs too? And what about Chakotay talking about how they needed babies for replacement crew? What about single people, the infertile and the gays? Would there have been any recrimination involved or congratulatory for crew who didn'twant to feed the ship crewlings like you feed a steam engine lumber?
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Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
I know you're being somewhat sarcastic, yet I find myself agreeing with you, as usual. Always sleep with the boss... yet no women in business? Yep. I wonder if anyone else noticed this?
I hadn't thought of that either.
I know you're being somewhat sarcastic, yet I find myself agreeing with you, as usual. Always sleep with the boss... yet no women in business? Yep. I wonder if anyone else noticed this?
I hadn't thought of that either.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
I'd have changed the ending of Year of Hell II so that Janeway blows up the timeship without crashing voyager into it...and then once it blows up, they're still in that timeline. The rest of the series would have had them on broken-down Voyager as things get worse and worse over the years. Kes and Neelix would be killed in a senseless way.
To get them all home, I'd have sent them through a wormhole that they knew ahead of time would kill 1/4 of the crew in transit. By then, staying in the Delta Quadrant would have seemed like even worse of a proposition.
The next three seasons or so would be about their return to the Alpha Quadrant, where Janeway would have had to face courts martial over her actions, half of the (surviving) crew would be dealing with fear of going back into space, some of the crew would deal with fear of leaving their ship, which was their one 'safe' place over years of fear and danger, and the others would be dealing with the pain of loved ones who had moved on (e.g., wives who remarried, children who didn't know who the returned crewmembers are, etc).
Overall, there would be more in the way of romantic relationships between the crew, more pain and suffering, more tragedy, more agonizing decisions where no option was right, more death and dismemberment, and no more shuttlecraft after the first ones got blowed up. And I'd take out most of the replicators after the first year so food, water, and spare parts would be harder to come by.
I'd have changed the ending of Year of Hell II so that Janeway blows up the timeship without crashing voyager into it...and then once it blows up, they're still in that timeline. The rest of the series would have had them on broken-down Voyager as things get worse and worse over the years. Kes and Neelix would be killed in a senseless way.
To get them all home, I'd have sent them through a wormhole that they knew ahead of time would kill 1/4 of the crew in transit. By then, staying in the Delta Quadrant would have seemed like even worse of a proposition.
The next three seasons or so would be about their return to the Alpha Quadrant, where Janeway would have had to face courts martial over her actions, half of the (surviving) crew would be dealing with fear of going back into space, some of the crew would deal with fear of leaving their ship, which was their one 'safe' place over years of fear and danger, and the others would be dealing with the pain of loved ones who had moved on (e.g., wives who remarried, children who didn't know who the returned crewmembers are, etc).
Overall, there would be more in the way of romantic relationships between the crew, more pain and suffering, more tragedy, more agonizing decisions where no option was right, more death and dismemberment, and no more shuttlecraft after the first ones got blowed up. And I'd take out most of the replicators after the first year so food, water, and spare parts would be harder to come by.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
^That is one bloody story arc right there. Personally I would have been okay a little less corpses, but I definitely agree that there would have been room for darker storylines. That is the reason why I love "Night" for instance. And I also agree that it would have been nice to see the crew work harder to find food, water and spare parts.
^That is one bloody story arc right there. Personally I would have been okay a little less corpses, but I definitely agree that there would have been room for darker storylines. That is the reason why I love "Night" for instance. And I also agree that it would have been nice to see the crew work harder to find food, water and spare parts.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
I'd have kept Lt Cavit alive, from the pilot. He really didn't like Paris, and I'd have kept that conflict going throughout the series. Also, I wouldn't redeem Paris so quickly. He should have been a morally ambiguous 'is he good, is he bad' character from the outset.
I'd also keep Suder alive as well. Having a murderous lunatic on the ship would have created a great deal of tension in subsequent storylines.
Not only would I have the Maquis on board, and not integrate them into the Voyager family, but I'd have the Cardassians from Gul Evek's ship survive the trip to the Delta Quadrant as well. Janeway would be trying her utmost every week to a)keep the ship in one piece, and b) stop the Maquis and Cardies from literally murdering each other.
Cavit and Chakotay would be constantly at each others throats, with Janeway playing mediator. And the rebellion from 'Worst Case Scenario' would have been done in earnest, not as a holoprogram.
I'd have kept Lt Cavit alive, from the pilot. He really didn't like Paris, and I'd have kept that conflict going throughout the series. Also, I wouldn't redeem Paris so quickly. He should have been a morally ambiguous 'is he good, is he bad' character from the outset.
I'd also keep Suder alive as well. Having a murderous lunatic on the ship would have created a great deal of tension in subsequent storylines.
Not only would I have the Maquis on board, and not integrate them into the Voyager family, but I'd have the Cardassians from Gul Evek's ship survive the trip to the Delta Quadrant as well. Janeway would be trying her utmost every week to a)keep the ship in one piece, and b) stop the Maquis and Cardies from literally murdering each other.
Cavit and Chakotay would be constantly at each others throats, with Janeway playing mediator. And the rebellion from 'Worst Case Scenario' would have been done in earnest, not as a holoprogram.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
^Also, I'd have people on the ship splitting off into mutinous factions, much like in 'Lost'. There would be Janeway's mob, Chakotay's followers, and Evek's crew.
^Also, I'd have people on the ship splitting off into mutinous factions, much like in 'Lost'. There would be Janeway's mob, Chakotay's followers, and Evek's crew.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
I guess that was the idea of Tuvok and Chakotay relationship, but it never really grew to anything big where Janeway would have played mediator. Tuvok and Chakotay had their disagreement in the beginning of Parallax, but that was about it.
I guess that was the idea of Tuvok and Chakotay relationship, but it never really grew to anything big where Janeway would have played mediator. Tuvok and Chakotay had their disagreement in the beginning of Parallax, but that was about it.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
While some of it seems almost too dark for Trek, I quite like the notion of not hitting the reset button at the end of 'Year of Hell.' This is one moment where they really pulled the punch and shouldn't have. I get that they didn't want the story to last the whole season, but why not use this to change the week to week 'status' of the ship? Just leave the ship in a state of disrepair/dirt for the next 2+ seasons.
Yeah, I agree. They dropped the ball on that for whatever reason, and it's a shame.
While some of it seems almost too dark for Trek, I quite like the notion of not hitting the reset button at the end of 'Year of Hell.' This is one moment where they really pulled the punch and shouldn't have. I get that they didn't want the story to last the whole season, but why not use this to change the week to week 'status' of the ship? Just leave the ship in a state of disrepair/dirt for the next 2+ seasons.
Yeah, I agree. They dropped the ball on that for whatever reason, and it's a shame.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
You're reminding me of another thing I would have done differently. I would have done more with the tension between Chakotay and Tuvok. After all, Tuvok was Janway's oldest friend on the ship but Chakotay was made first officer and became her msot trusted advisor. You can see some of this tension during the episode "Basics" but it would have been interesting to see more of it.
You're reminding me of another thing I would have done differently. I would have done more with the tension between Chakotay and Tuvok. After all, Tuvok was Janway's oldest friend on the ship but Chakotay was made first officer and became her msot trusted advisor. You can see some of this tension during the episode "Basics" but it would have been interesting to see more of it.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
This is getting scary...
I agree.
More conflict between Chakotay and Tuvok--with Janeway playing both sides to add to the tension--would have given both characters something to do.
This is getting scary...
I agree.
More conflict between Chakotay and Tuvok--with Janeway playing both sides to add to the tension--would have given both characters something to do.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
There is a great story in Distant Shores, which focuses on Tuvok/Chakotay tension. During the battle with some aliens, Janeway suddenly loses her conciousness and is taken to the sickbay. Chakotay takes command. Tuvok does not trust him at all and the situation on the bridge is written very well. It takes place after Caretaker or Parallax, and it something I would have loved to see as an episode on TV.
There is a great story in Distant Shores, which focuses on Tuvok/Chakotay tension. During the battle with some aliens, Janeway suddenly loses her conciousness and is taken to the sickbay. Chakotay takes command. Tuvok does not trust him at all and the situation on the bridge is written very well. It takes place after Caretaker or Parallax, and it something I would have loved to see as an episode on TV.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
I wouldn't want to make Voyager too dark, but I definitely agree that we really needed more conflict, particularly between the Maquis and the Regular Army...er, Regular Starfleet folks. That would have been really interesting, and really realistic, too -- and the presence of the Maquis should have been a bigger part of the show. It was used, but not as much as it should have been.
I don't like the idea of making all those Maquis serve prison time once they get back to the Alpha Quadrant (which I think somebody suggested way back when, but I can't find it now). I mean, jeez, they'd served 7 years already on Voyager, a ship where they didn't (at least originally) want to be, and some of them presumably served well. I'd like to think that the Federation system of justice is tempered with mercy. But I do like the idea of their having to prove their worth, and I like the idea of us getting to see it, too. But I want a happy ending, dang it.
I wouldn't want to make Voyager too dark, but I definitely agree that we really needed more conflict, particularly between the Maquis and the Regular Army...er, Regular Starfleet folks. That would have been really interesting, and really realistic, too -- and the presence of the Maquis should have been a bigger part of the show. It was used, but not as much as it should have been.
I don't like the idea of making all those Maquis serve prison time once they get back to the Alpha Quadrant (which I think somebody suggested way back when, but I can't find it now). I mean, jeez, they'd served 7 years already on Voyager, a ship where they didn't (at least originally) want to be, and some of them presumably served well. I'd like to think that the Federation system of justice is tempered with mercy. But I do like the idea of their having to prove their worth, and I like the idea of us getting to see it, too. But I want a happy ending, dang it.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
You're thinking maybe about near the last episode of season six called Life line written by Picardo where an admiral asks Janeway in a letter to keep him apprised of the Maquis Situation, and Janeway breaks down into a wax laconic about How they're not maquis anymore but her beloved family... Which is about when I realized that because Janeway hadn't officially dealt with them in some capacity, then some one else less lenient and compassionate down the line would have to deal with seeing that they all answer for their crimes against the Federation and Cardassia.
However, nothing comes of nothing.
Though if the Maquis got a free ride and the Equinox 5 didn't?
You're thinking maybe about near the last episode of season six called Life line written by Picardo where an admiral asks Janeway in a letter to keep him apprised of the Maquis Situation, and Janeway breaks down into a wax laconic about How they're not maquis anymore but her beloved family... Which is about when I realized that because Janeway hadn't officially dealt with them in some capacity, then some one else less lenient and compassionate down the line would have to deal with seeing that they all answer for their crimes against the Federation and Cardassia.
However, nothing comes of nothing.
Though if the Maquis got a free ride and the Equinox 5 didn't?
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
The Equinox 5 committed genocide. The Maquis were defending their homes (for the most part).
The Equinox 5 committed genocide. The Maquis were defending their homes (for the most part).
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
Genocide is the eradication of an entire species.
We're not sure if the Equinox killed any more than a hundred of these beasties (68 beasties = 30,000 light years.) for fuel and maybe about the same again to defend themselves from the vengeance of loved ones wondering why their family and friends where being rinsed though Equinox's engine block.
They were just plain everyday murderers.
Killing Tuvix was genocide.
Seriously but, Kathy killed at least the same number of Swarmies in the Swarm when they suggested that they were allowed to execute any one who encroached on their sovereign space after several matter of fact clear warnings, in fact the Swarmies would probably consider the failed defense of their homefront and the annihilation of their space navy to have been not altogether too different to what the Feds regarded about Wolf 359.
Meanwhile, B'Elanna stole a weapon of mass destruction, a planet wrecker off the Cardassians and decided to exterminate an entire planet of Cardassians, and that was just a slow day in their terrorist cell, which is a heck of a lot closer to genocide than hunting a couple dozen space vermin.
Genocide is the eradication of an entire species.
We're not sure if the Equinox killed any more than a hundred of these beasties (68 beasties = 30,000 light years.) for fuel and maybe about the same again to defend themselves from the vengeance of loved ones wondering why their family and friends where being rinsed though Equinox's engine block.
They were just plain everyday murderers.
Killing Tuvix was genocide.
Seriously but, Kathy killed at least the same number of Swarmies in the Swarm when they suggested that they were allowed to execute any one who encroached on their sovereign space after several matter of fact clear warnings, in fact the Swarmies would probably consider the failed defense of their homefront and the annihilation of their space navy to have been not altogether too different to what the Feds regarded about Wolf 359.
Meanwhile, B'Elanna stole a weapon of mass destruction, a planet wrecker off the Cardassians and decided to exterminate an entire planet of Cardassians, and that was just a slow day in their terrorist cell, which is a heck of a lot closer to genocide than hunting a couple dozen space vermin.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
By that definition what happened to the Jews under Hitler would not be called genocide.
By that definition what happened to the Jews under Hitler would not be called genocide.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
It wasn't. Geno means species and Cide means kill. It's a word.
The word holocaust is generally used, and the charge leveled against the Nazis is usually "attempted genocide" since their plan was to rid the planet of the Jews completely which would have been genocide if their plan had come together, but they cocked it up didn't they?
So it was only megacide, but not from lack of trying.
It wasn't. Geno means species and Cide means kill. It's a word.
The word holocaust is generally used, and the charge leveled against the Nazis is usually "attempted genocide" since their plan was to rid the planet of the Jews completely which would have been genocide if their plan had come together, but they cocked it up didn't they?
So it was only megacide, but not from lack of trying.
Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different
That's a good point. One more interesting bit of drama she'd have to face upon coming home.
See, that was the kind of thing I was thinking of as to why they wouldn't get off scott free.
And for the record, I'd just call what the Equinox crew was doing mass murder. They weren't trying to exterminate the race but they did kill a lot of sentient beings.
That's a good point. One more interesting bit of drama she'd have to face upon coming home.
See, that was the kind of thing I was thinking of as to why they wouldn't get off scott free.
And for the record, I'd just call what the Equinox crew was doing mass murder. They weren't trying to exterminate the race but they did kill a lot of sentient beings.
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