If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done differently?

[TheGodBen]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

If you tuned into the shows & stay tuned in, then you gave Paramount approval to continue to treat you like a horny dog. If you turned it off like hundrends did with ENT., then you voice your opinion to Paramount that you don't approve of such things. If the majority responded badly to how Seven looked, they wouldn't have continued it with T'Pol.

There is a character on Lost called Kate who I find to be really irritating and a complete waste of space, yet the writers keep on insisting on putting her in episodes about some boring love-triangle crap that makes my brain bleed. And they keep on filming her in her undies too. However I keep watching the show because I'm hooked on the plot and the presence of Locke and Ben easily make up for the presence of Kate.

My point being that Seven was just one element of Voyager, and even though I am usually down on Voyager I still found it mostly watchable. I found Seven's catsuit off-putting but the character wasn't bad, neither was the character of the Doctor and even Janeway had her moments. And every once in a while they would come up with an episode like Living Witness or Timeless which made up for the time wasted on crap like Fair Haven.

If I stopped watching a show because I didn't like one aspect of it then I'd be proving that I am emotionally unstable and have a brain the size of a pinhead.

 

[exodus]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

If you tuned into the shows & stay tuned in, then you gave Paramount approval to continue to treat you like a horny dog. If you turned it off like hundrends did with ENT., then you voice your opinion to Paramount that you don't approve of such things. If the majority responded badly to how Seven looked, they wouldn't have continued it with T'Pol.

There is a character on Lost called Kate who I find to be really irritating and a complete waste of space, yet the writers keep on insisting on putting her in episodes about some boring love-triangle crap that makes my brain bleed. And they keep on filming her in her undies too. However I keep watching the show because I'm hooked on the plot and the presence of Locke and Ben easily make up for the presence of Kate.

My point being that Seven was just one element of Voyager, and even though I am usually down on Voyager I still found it mostly watchable. I found Seven's catsuit off-putting but the character wasn't bad, neither was the character of the Doctor and even Janeway had her moments. And every once in a while they would come up with an episode like Living Witness or Timeless which made up for the time wasted on crap like Fair Haven.

If I stopped watching a show because I didn't like one aspect of it then I'd be proving that I am emotionally unstable and have a brain the size of a pinhead.

It's enough of an issue for you to keep talking about it many pages later and also bring up LOST and Kate in her underwear.

 

[RaymondJames]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

The biggest problem I had with Voyager was realtionships.

It starts you have

Spark between Chakotay and B'Elanna
which goes no where and just fades

Chakotay & Janeway........nothing happened yet every week they had chemistry.

Kes & Neelix (shivers) bad idea fromt he start

Kes & Tom (interesting but never carried out)

Chakotay & Seven (does he get around or what?)

Harry Kim & 7 of 9 (okay but it was creepy)

Tom & B'Elanna .... good but what ever happened with Chakotay??

------------------
That covers romance

 

[Praetor]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

The biggest problem I had with Voyager was realtionships.

It starts you have

Spark between Chakotay and B'Elanna
which goes no where and just fades

He was busy with Seska at the time.

Chakotay & Janeway........nothing happened yet every week they had chemistry.

Violation of regulations... or something. They had an 'arrangement.'

Kes & Neelix (shivers) bad idea fromt he start

Why did Neelix seem like a pedophile? Gee, lemme think. Had this element of his character been non-existent or otherwise downplayed, I'd have probably liked him more.

Kes & Tom (interesting but never carried out)

Well in a couple of erased timelines, it was. Ah, non-memories...

Chakotay & Seven (does he get around or what?)

It was his reward for keeping his mouth mostly shut in the later years, and honoring Kathy's arrangement. Just why do you think she helped Seven rediscover her humanity anyway?

Harry Kim & 7 of 9 (okay but it was creepy)

The two non-humans. What's so creepy about that?

Tom & B'Elanna .... good but what ever happened with Chakotay??

Well obviously B'Elanna's nacelles weren't as large as Seven's. (Not as many warp coils.)

You're obviously forgetting such great potential (hinted as early as the pilot) as Chakotay/Paris (hate sex), Paris/Kim (bromance turned convenience), and Chakotay/Tuvok (more hate sex!). Later, there was potential for Paris/EMH (more hate sex! Paris did love his holograms...) and Kim/EMH (again, non-humans on that one.)

No love for Neelix though. Cuz that's just wrong.

"And now, for something we hope you'll really like."

 

[RaymondJames]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

On a personal note I find B'Elanna way hotter than 7 of 9.

However, Janeway tops my list.

Also what was Keeping Janeway from hooking up with Chakotay. he wasn't even starfleet. Was it her making him a member of the crew and her first officer....if so

JESUS Janeway, your in the Delta quadrant no one will ever have to know

 

[JoeZhang]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

1) young inexperienced Captain who grew into the role over the season

2) No Neelix - the character always gave me the creeps. Any episode with him and that brat, I keep expecting the reveal to be Neelix trying to climb into bed with her

3) Marquis would not have worn the uniforms for at least a season and the process of being a whole crew would have been far harder

4) Far more conflict about staying or trying to get home

5) More characters who were unlikable but needed to keep the ship running

 

[LLAP]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

BTW, I also have no idea where you're getting racism from. In referance to homosexuality, homosexuality is a culture not a race.

It's just that simple.

lol? Homosexuality is not a culture or a race, it is a sexual orientation. Nothing more.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Ok I am going to disagree with the Lon Suder stuff. The man was psycho, and he killed people apparently randomly, and while it is true that Tuvok helped him, it's also true or at least canon that Chakotay didn't trust him. I certainly wouldn't have turned my back on him at all.

Suder is the villain that redeemed himself by doing a heroic thing, in any other context you diminish the character and his redemption.

Brit

You don't seem to understand how badly the writers hated Voyager.

Lon Suder was a psycho. Tuvok fixed him enough so that Lon could see that he was a monster, but it didn't change the bloke in the crews eyes, nothing was forgiven or forgotten (How Tom should have been treated for at least a year.), months later, just one day at a time, trying to be a better, nobler person, fighting his murderous instincts which sicken him constantly (I smell a metaphor for Alcohol and Rehab. 12 steps. Torchwood had a joke about Murder Rehab. Torchwood is funny.), everyone still hates him and they don't give a poop about how hard he's trying, how he is so much better and differenter a person. Suder is reviled who understands why and puts up with the unrelenting vilification because he can't see how any one could possibly treat some one different just because of an extreme change in biochemistry (Tuvix, Riddles, Threshold.) and personality, that the quality of the new person he has become can't be reaccessed and rejudged on it's own merit, probably only because without the opportunity to carry through with some oblique grand gesture, the hapless crew is so stuckup as to believe that their preconceptions about this man will hold true for the next million years since, if not the next 10, Lon Suder can never change or be rehabilitated, tigers changing spots what not. Of course the opportunity for an oblique grand gesture to prove new found goodieness and value to the crew did suddenly avail itself in Basics II, and it wasn't in botany where he'd be improving the efficiency of the crops in Voyagers retrofitted cargo bays, it was killing. They took a man who was vilified for killing even by himself who had fussed himself into such a stress disorder about his past sins and quelling his yearning to do bad to the point of soul reflux, and they (The Doctor, a fracking light bulb took point! Like he wasn't forgiven in 2 seconds for vivisecting Seven and betraying Voyager to a ship firing on Voyager, not that seven wasn't instiforgiven for participating in the assimilation of untold worlds... Isn't it fortunate that her personality was altered and fudged till she was no longer proud of rolling genocide? Don't we hold grudges against blond girls with large boobies?) forced Suder to subdue his new born sense of morality to do some killing in the name of ship and captain.

They forgave him for killing because he started killing again.

That is so f&^ked up.

 

[exodus]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

BTW, I also have no idea where you're getting racism from. In referance to homosexuality, homosexuality is a culture not a race.

It's just that simple.

lol? Homosexuality is not a culture or a race, it is a sexual orientation. Nothing more.

Sorry but you're incorrect. Several sociologists have agreed that any society within a socitey is defined as a culture, much like Hip-Hop "culture" is a sub-culture of Black culture because they have a style, language and code of conduct distinctively different than that of standard Black culture. Transgender alone is more than just sexual orentation, while Crossdressing isn't believed to be strongly linked to sexual orentation at all. All of that falls into the catagory of Alternate Lifestyle.

The Homosexual community falls into that same catagory as a sub-culture within a culture. Therefore it's determined that homosexual/transgender community is indeed a culture.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

If your "lot" were targeted and hunted by the Nazi's and put into death camps and gassed, then you're a race and/or a culture and what everelse some distinction you need to abide by and standard to exist under to have the baddies think twice before pulling those shenanigans again.

 

[leola]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

When I talk Trek with non-Trek-obsessed people , Spock and his pointy ears are usually the first topic accessed. I patiently wait while we work through Data and Worf. DSN may or may not get a mention, but Odo comes up as unique, if it does. Voyager is inevitably about the catsuit. *yawn*

I would have tried harder to make the show stand out for a unique alien/lifeform trait, a la Spock, Data, Worf and Odo, that didn't pander so easily to sex. What I love about Star Trek is the creativity, the imagination, the wonder and possibility, the unknown. I loved how it was daring enough to have women and non-whites in positions of power and influence way back in the 60s. I think they really dropped the ball with this representation 30 years later.

A former Borg character is fascinating. And Jeri Ryan is a good enough actress to have been able to make the character interesting and intriguing. I would rather have seen her rediscover her humanity and help solve half the remaining seasons' issues in work-appropriate clothing. Kirk's mini-skirted cohorts might at least have worn similar clothes out of the studio. Pretty sure not many folks were walking around in the 90s wearing ridiculously tight, enhancing body suits.

I agree with many of the previous suggestions regarding plot changes. One that has intrigued me is the lack of couples, as previously mentioned. The most risque 'sex' scenes involve B'Elanna with Tom on the planet with her pseudo Pon-Farr, and with Chakotay when their deepest desires are being dreamt, and those don't break the ratings. Otherwise, Janeway kisses Kashyk, Seven kisses Harry, and the odd other sign of affection are all that is shown. Aside from B'Elanna and her helm-boy, healthy, normal, loving relationships are not given air-time, but Seven's high-heeled, well-endowed and enhanced frame is paraded on the screen, oozing sex ... for what purpose? How did her appearance and outfit help her solve 'the problem', yet again? I find it sexist, belittling to her as an actress, and insulting to my intelligence that her main attributes or contributions are her '44DDs' or her 'ta-tas' (or other juvenile euphomism of choice, seen in several threads).

Despite that and several dozen other changes that might have improved the show, V is my favourite Trek, followed closely by TNG. (Where is my Janeway smiley???)

I'm new to the board and haven't gone through all the archives, so apologies if this has been discussed in great detail previously.

 

[kimc]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

I'm new to the board and haven't gone through all the archives, so apologies if this has been discussed in great detail previously.

Don't worry - newer posters can bring a fresh perspective to previously discussed topics which makes everything old new again.

I also agree with you that for the most part sexual titillation was a higher priority than showing realistic, loving sexual relationships. It seems that with Tom and B'Elanna they felt they hit their quota.

 

[teya]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

I find it sexist, belittling to her as an actress, and insulting to my intelligence that her main attributes or contributions are her '44DDs' or her 'ta-tas' (or other juvenile euphomism of choice, seen in several threads).

Except her boobs are not her main attribute nor her main contribution to the show.

In Seven we had a character with depth, one whose appearance was ironic given her personality. She may have looked sexy, but looks are deceiving.

And your concern for Jeri is duly noted, however, she still ranks Seven as one of the best characters she's played (in the new ST magazine interview). She discounts the fanboy letters and says she was most touched by those who wrote her saying that they identified with Seven's struggles in some way.

She does not feel that the part was merely T&A.

ETA: And what would I do differently on Voyager?

See my sig:

Give the poor man a tribe. A real one. Not a fake New Age mish mash.

 

[LLAP]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

BTW, I also have no idea where you're getting racism from. In referance to homosexuality, homosexuality is a culture not a race.

It's just that simple.

lol? Homosexuality is not a culture or a race, it is a sexual orientation. Nothing more.

Sorry but you're incorrect. Several sociologists have agreed that any society within a socitey is defined as a culture, much like Hip-Hop "culture" is a sub-culture of Black culture because they have a style, language and code of conduct distinctively different than that of standard Black culture. Transgender alone is more than just sexual orentation, while Crossdressing isn't believed to be strongly linked to sexual orentation at all. All of that falls into the catagory of Alternate Lifestyle.

The Homosexual community falls into that same catagory as a sub-culture within a culture. Therefore it's determined that homosexual/transgender community is indeed a culture.

No. Since when does being gay put you into a freaking community? Oh yes, all the gays have weekly meetings where they discuss gayness! No. SOME gay people choose that, but not all and since culture does not equal genetics I cannot agree that homosexuality is a 'culture'. It's like saying black culture - if you are black you are part of 'black' culture. NO. Some people may choose to be a rapper which some consider to be part of 'black' culture (in the US anyway) but that doesn't mean being black makes you part of a 'black culture'.

 

[exodus]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

lol? Homosexuality is not a culture or a race, it is a sexual orientation. Nothing more.

Sorry but you're incorrect. Several sociologists have agreed that any society within a socitey is defined as a culture, much like Hip-Hop "culture" is a sub-culture of Black culture because they have a style, language and code of conduct distinctively different than that of standard Black culture. Transgender alone is more than just sexual orentation, while Crossdressing isn't believed to be strongly linked to sexual orentation at all. All of that falls into the catagory of Alternate Lifestyle.

The Homosexual community falls into that same catagory as a sub-culture within a culture. Therefore it's determined that homosexual/transgender community is indeed a culture.

No. Since when does being gay put you into a freaking community? Oh yes, all the gays have weekly meetings where they discuss gayness! No. SOME gay people choose that, but not all and since culture does not equal genetics I cannot agree that homosexuality is a 'culture'. It's like saying black culture - if you are black you are part of 'black' culture. NO. Some people may choose to be a rapper which some consider to be part of 'black' culture (in the US anyway) but that doesn't mean being black makes you part of a 'black culture'.

Then take it up with the sociologists.

This has nothing to do with what people personally choose or what you wish to agree with. Homosexuals have a community and are a culture as defined by the social structure and definition of the words. Arguing personal opinion doesn't change that. Besides it was already explained that a rapper is a part of Hip-Hop culture a sub-culture of black culture, even fashion designers know that fact.

 

[LLAP]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Sorry but you're incorrect. Several sociologists have agreed that any society within a socitey is defined as a culture, much like Hip-Hop "culture" is a sub-culture of Black culture because they have a style, language and code of conduct distinctively different than that of standard Black culture. Transgender alone is more than just sexual orentation, while Crossdressing isn't believed to be strongly linked to sexual orentation at all. All of that falls into the catagory of Alternate Lifestyle.

The Homosexual community falls into that same catagory as a sub-culture within a culture. Therefore it's determined that homosexual/transgender community is indeed a culture.

No. Since when does being gay put you into a freaking community? Oh yes, all the gays have weekly meetings where they discuss gayness! No. SOME gay people choose that, but not all and since culture does not equal genetics I cannot agree that homosexuality is a 'culture'. It's like saying black culture - if you are black you are part of 'black' culture. NO. Some people may choose to be a rapper which some consider to be part of 'black' culture (in the US anyway) but that doesn't mean being black makes you part of a 'black culture'.

Then take it up with the sociologists.

This has nothing to do with what people personally choose or what you wish to agree with. Homosexuals have a community and are a culture as defined by the social structure and definition of the words. Arguing personal opinion doesn't change that. Besides it was already explained that a rapper is a part of Hip-Hop culture a sub-culture of black culture, even fashion designers know that fact.

I don't think you understand. Some Homosexuals may have a 'culture' but that does not mean that homosexuality is a culture. Anyway who are these cretinous sociologists you refer to lol?

 

[kimc]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

^ Hey guys, as fascinating as all this is I'm not sure what it has to do with what you would have done differently on Voyager. Perhaps you can continue this side discussion in Miscellaneous or via pm?

 

[Praetor]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

Isn't this a Voyager thread?

 

[exodus]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

^ Hey guys, as fascinating as all this is I'm not sure what it has to do with what you would have done differently on Voyager. Perhaps you can continue this side discussion in Miscellaneous or via pm?

It started with the idea of having a gay character on the show.

 

[kimc]

Re: If you were the creator of VOY, what would you have done different

^ Hey guys, as fascinating as all this is I'm not sure what it has to do with what you would have done differently on Voyager. Perhaps you can continue this side discussion in Miscellaneous or via pm?

It started with the idea of having a gay character on the show.

It left the show a while back. Move on.