If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Differently?

[Elder Knight]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

I'd have made lots of rules regarding matter teleportation. E.g., you could only beam along straight lines, in clear planetary weather, to open spaces, with some uncertainty as to the precise spot. It would always be fraught with peril. Nobody would beam unless there were no alternative. (Of course, that would frequently be the situation!)

The primitive transporter would still be too far advanced for the era, but slightly more realistic. I think that would lead to more dramatic situations and close a lot of plot loopholes.

(I know that it was a budget-driven decision not to use shuttle craft. I think they could have carried it off with a little imagination.)

Same thing for warp speeds. It should never be considered routine. There's a touch of this in The Cage when Pike says something like "Prepare for Time Warp," and they go through a drill and nobody moves until they're well along the way.

 

[Admiral2]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

I'd have rotated the secondary characters to different posts, so they're not always at the same stations and doing the same thing week after week.

This is the one I don't get. If they're normally assigned to those posts, why wouldn't they be there week after week?

 

[Ssosmcin]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

I like your post, so:

What would I have changed?

I'd never have made the Yeoman pining for the Captain, nor the nurse in love with Spock. That was bad for the image of women on the show.

I agree with the captain/yeoman aspect, that was a little on the “eh” side. However, I think a fellow crewmember being fascinated to the point of love with the only Vulcan on board is not a bad idea (and probably could have represented some of the fans out there). I would just have the execution of this idea handled better. She would be a fleshed out, well defined and written character on her own. Chapel was her love of Spock. Take that away and you have nothing.

Spock wouldn't have called Kirk "Jim" until the chips were down in "City on the Edge of Forever".

I certainly wouldn’t have Spock use it in WNMHGB. They didn’t seem all that close or have anything resembling that familiar of a relationship (chess game notwithstanding). If not in City, then on some other episode where Spock needs to break through Kirk’s emotional state and get him to focus.

I'd never have pitched the show to NBC as a "strange new worlds" format, but stressed the shipboard aspect, and that we'd visit planets never more than 40% of the episodes, which would allow more of the budget to be spent on:

• standing sets
• developing the cast
• building a library of stock shots of the ship

I dunno, I think a primarily shipboard show would suffer from later season Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea Syndrome.

I'd have stressed science fiction stories and left Mudd's Women and E Pleb Nista and their ilk in the rubbish can where they belonged.

Yeah, I’m with you there. I probably also would have done a lot less rewriting of other people’s scripts and only made adjustments to keep them in line with the format. That way, I could tap a larger pool of great SF writers.

I'd have instructed the production team to not be on-the-nose when visiting planets like in Return of the Archons. Sure, the technology may be circa 1900, but let's mix up the stock wardrobe to it's not EARTH clothes of that era, and do small stuff to make the place seem alien, like show a clock with 7 "hours" or other things just "off" from what we're used to.

That doesn’t seem so hard to do, does it? Funny how they never went that way.

I'd have made sure that serious episodes end on a serious note, not a jaw-droppingly inappropriate "humorous" finish.

Oh God, the Spock wisecrack in Enemy Within or that heinous “everybody hold their sides and try not to pass out from the hilarity” scene in Galileo Seven! Great episodes with horrible fades.

I'd have rotated the secondary characters to different posts, so they're not always at the same stations and doing the same thing week after week.

This last point I don’t really get. I would think moving them around, while realistic for “cross-training of the staff” purposes, would confuse the hell out of the audience. The guy at the helm should be the guy at the helm, not over at communications next week and at science the next. I would, however, continue to give them more to do – like in the very beginning of the series – and flesh them out as people.

 

[Myasishchev]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

Same thing for warp speeds. It should never be considered routine. There's a touch of this in The Cage when Pike says something like "Prepare for Time Warp," and they go through a drill and nobody moves until they're well along the way.

How could warp speed not be routine? It would perforce be far more routine than sublight speeds, because of the nature of space.

Oh God, the Spock wisecrack in Enemy Within or that heinous “everybody hold their sides and try not to pass out from the hilarity” scene in Galileo Seven! Great episodes with horrible fades.

My favorite one is Wolf in the Fold, when--after three or four women have been brutally slain, two by Scotty's own hand, and they've killed the innocent man they've trapped the Redjac energy creature in--they start joking about picking up some chicks. You know, I'm sure they're hugely popular on that planet.

That's DS9Sega's best criticism: that stuff borders on the insane. It's almost fourth-wall-breaking, as if Kirk and Spock have realized they're in a TV show.

 

[Bacl]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

Just two things I would change:

1) No falling out of chairs, no jiggling of cameras. Artificial gravity works or it doesn't.

2) No beaming down to the planet of senior officers except under extreme circumstances. Instead, a crack "contact team", perhaps in purple shirts, would do the investigating. You'd end up with more of a split cast show, but it would make more sense and there'd be more potential ultimately.

I'll agree with #1 100%.

As for #2...eh...unless the stars of the show are the non-senior officers, then I don't see how we could get around this one.

 

[Neopeius]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

Just two things I would change:

1) No falling out of chairs, no jiggling of cameras. Artificial gravity works or it doesn't.

2) No beaming down to the planet of senior officers except under extreme circumstances. Instead, a crack "contact team", perhaps in purple shirts, would do the investigating. You'd end up with more of a split cast show, but it would make more sense and there'd be more potential ultimately.

I'll agree with #1 100%.

As for #2...eh...unless the stars of the show are the non-senior officers, then I don't see how we could get around this one.

Probably true. Would have been a good spinoff series, perhaps.

 

[Maurice]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

As to rotating the characters around, do you really think audiences would be so stupid as to not be able to understand why Chekov was usually at the helm but sometimes he was at Spock's station? Of course not, and the show did just that. They could just as easily have put Uhura working another station, etc. Or even moved their roles around from season to season. The actors and the fans would have enjoyed seeing those people doing different things, or were they and us really so enamored of seeing poor Uhura say "hailing frequenies open" every week?

As to more shipboard stories, both Roddenberry and Justman complained that having to visit new planets all the time was a drain on the budget, but since Roddenberry pitched the show as "strange new worlds" their network liason pushed them to do "planet stories" all the time. As there's no eveidence that NBC bought the show because of Strange New Worlds as opposed to the other elements pitched, it's not impossible to believe the network would have been just as happy with a show where they visited planets in only 2 out of 3 episodes, provided that's what they'd been promised.

 

[Praetor]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

As to rotating the characters around, do you really think audiences would be so stupid as to not be able to understand why Chekov was usually at the helm but sometimes he was at Spock's station? Of course not, and the show did just that. They could just as easily have put Uhura working another station, etc. Or even moved their roles around from season to season. The actors and the fans would have enjoyed seeing those people doing different things, or were they and us really so enamored of seeing poor Uhura say "hailing frequenies open" every week?

A very good point. I even wonder if the general Joe Public non-fan viewer even understands really the significance of the various stations?

 

[JustKate]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

Me, too. Also, the concept of "there're lots of jobs on a ship, and we all have to pitch in" is surely not that complicated.

 

[Admiral2]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

As to rotating the characters around, do you really think audiences would be so stupid as to not be able to understand why Chekov was usually at the helm but sometimes he was at Spock's station? Of course not, and the show did just that. They could just as easily have put Uhura working another station, etc. Or even moved their roles around from season to season. The actors and the fans would have enjoyed seeing those people doing different things, or were they and us really so enamored of seeing poor Uhura say "hailing frequenies open" every week?

Whether or not the audience would "get it" isn't really the issue. People aboard ship are assigned their jobs, and they're given those jobs for a reason. The job of an ordnance guy on a carrier is to maintain and load bombs on airplanes. You're not going to just up and switch him to fuel guy just so you won't see him in a red shirt "week after week" unless you're an idiot.

What's wrong with seeing the Communications Officer communicating week after week? What's wrong with seeing the Navigator navigating week after week? What's wrong with seeing the Helmsman man the helm week after week, since those happen to be their freaking JOBS? Yes, they've all done other tasks, but only when the people who were supposed to be doing them were unavailable, not because of some pressing need to shake things up for TV. I can understand it if there's a crew of five or seven and everybody has to pitch in everywhere. If you're going to keep a crew of four hundred, rotating jobs is stupid, and doing it just so it will look different on TV is Hollywood stupid.

 

[Maurice]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

Except that the show already did it all the time: Chekov took over for Spock now and then, all of them went on landing parties (that's like sending your bomb loader on a shore party). Scotty was on landing parties when it rarely made sense. Call it "Hollywood stupid" if you like, but it was part and parcel of the show (all the shows, in fact), but it's the reality of TV production where you give the speaking roles to your primary cast most of the time, which mens having people do things that aren't their job for the convenience of the budget and to get the most value out of your cast. To have Uhura shift jobs between seasons is no dumber than any of the aforementioned examples.

 

[Admiral2]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

Except that the show already did it all the time: Chekov took over for Spock now and then, all of them went on landing parties (that's like sending your bomb loader on a shore party). Scotty was on landing parties when it rarely made sense. Call it "Hollywood stupid" if you like, but it was part and parcel of the show (all the shows, in fact), but it's the reality of TV production where you give the speaking roles to your primary cast most of the time, which mens having people do things that aren't their job for the convenience of the budget and to get the most value out of your cast. To have Uhura shift jobs between seasons is no dumber than any of the aforementioned examples.

From a standpoint of TV production, maybe. From the standpoint of Realism and Common Sense, not being any dumber doesn't actually make it smart. I would rather spend my budget on as much realism as I could manage than playing musical jobs with the crew.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

From a standpoint of TV production, maybe. From the standpoint of Realism and Common Sense, not being any dumber doesn't actually make it smart. I would rather spend my budget on as much realism as I could manage than playing musical jobs with the crew.

It really wouldn't be costly at all to shuffle those day players, who are already getting a salary, to other chairs. It would cost nothing more. Therefore, from a pragmatic production standpoint it's cost effective; use who you got and not hire any additional players. Doing it or not, either way, the money being spent is what is already being spent for people to already be sitting in those chairs.

 

[Admiral2]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

From a standpoint of TV production, maybe. From the standpoint of Realism and Common Sense, not being any dumber doesn't actually make it smart. I would rather spend my budget on as much realism as I could manage than playing musical jobs with the crew.

It really wouldn't be costly at all to shuffle those day players, who are already getting a salary, to other chairs. It would cost nothing more. Therefore, from a pragmatic production standpoint it's cost effective; use who you got and not hire any additional players. Doing it or not, either way, the money being spent is what is already being spent for people to already be sitting in those chairs.

My point keeps being missed. Cost effectiveness is not the issue. Neither is audience confusion. Shuffling people around into different jobs in a crew that numbers four hundred defies common sense and is hopelessly unrealistic. It doesn't matter if they have already done it on Star Trek. In fact, since the whole gist of this thread is to do things differently, aping something that was done for no good reason should be the last thing anyone here wants to do.

 

[JustKate]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

That is a very good point, Admiral - this is the "What would you differently?" thread, not the "What's realistic?" thread. Realism is that we have exactly the same cast and exactly the same constraints. So to heck with realism!

But here's something I would like to do differently: I would like to get to know other characters besides the Big 3 + 1 (Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty). Some of the others had their moments, but they didn't get very many of them, and I would like give them more chances. If that means that Uhura or Sulu end up working on the transporter because before assuming their current positions, they spent some time in Transporter School, so be it.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

My point keeps being missed. Cost effectiveness is not the issue. Neither is audience confusion. Shuffling people around into different jobs in a crew that numbers four hundred defies common sense and is hopelessly unrealistic. It doesn't matter if they have already done it on Star Trek. In fact, since the whole gist of this thread is to do things differently, aping something that was done for no good reason should be the last thing anyone here wants to do.

Yet, you mentioned budget in your last post, and thus my response:

Emphasis mine
From a standpoint of TV production, maybe. From the standpoint of Realism and Common Sense, not being any dumber doesn't actually make it smart. I would rather spend my budget on as much realism as I could manage than playing musical jobs with the crew.

The above sentence implies that you thought money would be spent on the "musical chairs" bit, when it can be spent on other things like "realism."

Now, I understand your point about "realism." However, it would make "common sense" to shift people around, particularly those in the command track as they would have to get a general understanding of all the particulars of how a starship functioned. It would certainly be useful to someone who serves as the ship's officer of the deck or the 23rd equivalent of the CICWO (Combat Information Center Watch Officer).

Moreover, in the future, as we have today, there will probably be a big multitasking function to any employment, military or otherwise. A person, in this case officer, would have to know more than beyond their one duty. We see this line of thinking in action during TNG's first season ("Lonely Among Us"), where Worf and Geordi are doing duty in that computer junction. As Worf puts it, "Captain Picard wants his junior officers to learn, learn, learn." It is also sprinkled throughout the season with Geordi and Worf doing "tours" in engineering.

 

[Aquehonga]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

I'm currently outta town and occupied, but I do have a few ideas that I'll flesh out when I get back. I will say this, three names come to mind for actors -- Robert Culp, Percy Rodriguez, and Martin Landu [sic].

As promised here are some of my ideas. Basically, it's more alternative universe casting more than anything else and based on Roddenberry's original 13-page treatment for the series. Imagine that Robert Justman, like he did with Patrick Stewart for TNG, pimped Robert Culp as the starship captain, Robert M. April. Justman had worked on The Outer Limits and the Harlan Ellision episode Culp was in, "Demon With A Glass Hand."

NBC executives, as seen in memos from Inside Star Trek, wanted a more multiracial cast. In this universe, Roddenberry considered Percy Rodriguez to play Robert M. April, but feared that 1960s American wasn't ready for a black male lead. However, he still wanted a black male in a prominent role and thus cast him in the role of the doctor, Philip "Bones" Boyce.

Martin Landau excepted the role of Lieutenant Spock when it was offered to him, but insisted that his wife Barbara Bain also be part of the show. Roddeberry cast her instead of Barrett (or M. Leigh Hudac) in the role of the "mysterious" Number One. Barrett was instead the yeoman, J.M. Colt.

So that "alternative" cast of "The Cage" looked like this:

Captain Robert M. April, played by Robert Culp
Number One, played by Barbara Bain
Dr. Philip "Bones" Boyce, played by Percy Rodriguez
Lieutenant Spock, played by Martian Landau
Yeoman J.M. Colt, played by Majel Barrett/M. Leigh Hudac
Lieutenant Jose Tyler, played by the same as "our" universe.

This pilot was accepted as was the cast with the dictum that the series by more "action-orientated." The series underwent the same changes as it did in "ours" in order to sell more colored television sets by RCA. It also aired a year earlier than in "our universe." This timing made the show a hit like Mission: Impossible on CBS, except in this universe Leonard Nimoy ended up on that show much earlier than he did in ours, playing the role of Martin Land. William Shatner, not Peter Graves, replaced Steven Hill after M:I's first year.


Landau demanded a bigger role and his character of Spock was expanded to be on par with Number One. The role of "our" Spock was then split between Landau and Bain (yeah she can play cold and rational, see Dr. Helena Russell). Number One was the cold, unemotional rational person whereas Spock had a catlike curiosity in the stories and was more experimental with his human-half. As their characters did on Mission:Impossible and Space: 1999, Landau and Bain's characters had a romantic interest in one another.

Majel Barrett was satisfied with the role of the yeoman because she was the romantic interest of Culp's April. Nichelle Nichols still joined the cast as Uhura in '65 and George Takei did as well as Sulu in '65. However, Sulu's role is that of engineer than helmsman. There was no Scotty or Kirk. Chekov still got shoehorned in the third season ('67) to meet the needs of the teen viewership and the supposed Pravda article.

After the third year, Landau and Bain departed the show after money disputes. Leonard Nimoy was sought as Landau's replacement, hoping that audiences would accept a "recast" of Spock. Roddenberry decided to create a new character instead to avoid too much audience backlash over the replacement of the popular character. Nimoy played the full-Vulcan Xon who would replace both Number One and Spock.

The series lasted five seasons.

way up!

A very interesting parallel-universe TOS

Like it

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

^Thanks.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

The only thing I woould have done differently was that I would have taken a week or two to sit down and flesh out the background material so I wouldn't have to make it up on the fly. It may never make it to the screen, but I, and the staff, would know what was what. This would save a lot of headaches down the road.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Re: If You Were the Creator of TOS, What Would You Have Done Different

I'll have to get back to ya on this one, due to available time (or lack thereof).

I would like to point out that Grace Lee Whitney helped design that miniskirt uniform with Bill Thiess, because, yes, she wanted to show off her legs.

And there were a few females who still wore pants in the first season, most notably in "Charlie X".