If you were able to use the Holodeck
- Thread starter Granola Gwen
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In reference to anyone who said sex:
"Riker to bridge, if anyone needs me I'll be on Holodeck 4" - Riker, Perfect Mate
"Riker to bridge, if anyone needs me I'll be on Holodeck 4" - Riker, Perfect Mate
Maybe it's an authenticity thing? Perhaps the deck projected a hologram over Riker's uniform, but Riker would still feel his uniform, since it's just a hologram. If you really want to feel like you're walking around in a suit of armor or a hoop skirt you have to head for the replicator.
The reason I questioned was because I imagine I'd feel rather silly walking down the Enterprise's corridors or sitting around Quark's waiting for my holo suite to open while wearing full costume
You do sort of see a version of that in GENERATIONS, when the crew's on the ENTERPRISE from Colonial Times out on the open sea. Red Alert is called and everyone has to rush to the bridge and they're still wearing their "costumes." Everything about the holodeck seems to be embarassing and awkward, though. Like when Data's trying to be a comedian and the audience laughs at everything, automatically. There would always be something not "right" about the experience and there goes the "fun" of it ...
The reason I questioned was because I imagine I'd feel rather silly walking down the Enterprise's corridors or sitting around Quark's waiting for my holo suite to open while wearing full costume
Didn't we see Kira and Dax doing just that dressed as princesses once?
The reason I questioned was because I imagine I'd feel rather silly walking down the Enterprise's corridors or sitting around Quark's waiting for my holo suite to open while wearing full costume
Didn't we see Kira and Dax doing just that dressed as princesses once?
I think it was the reverse - they were coming out of the holosuite in "Way of the Warrior", and it was the first time Dax met Worf.
But the holodeck can also be a replicator. Meaning, if you go in and do a holoprogram of your favorite restaurant, you're eating real food, not holo-food - the program replicates it for you. Don't see why the same thing couldn't apply for things like clothing.
I mean, in ST:FC, Picard and crew are about to beam down to Earth and he tells the computer that they want to be dressed in mid-21st-century civilian clothing, which the transporter automatically creates for them during the beam down process. The holodecks may have been adaptable for the same functionality. For instance, when Picard and Lily went into the Dixon Hill program, the computer may have automatically "trans-replicated" their existing clothes into 1940's appropriate attire. It wouldn't be holographic clothing, it'd be replicated.
And yet we also have things like the crew in those sailor outfits in Generations or Kira and Jadzia in their medieval gowns.
It's just one of those things that aren't consistent, like a lot concerning the holodeck.
Why? Since the holodeck is a common recreational device at that time, people should be used to such things. The only time embarrassment would come into it would be if it's one of the programs where you're not wearing anything, or at least not much.I imagine I'd feel rather silly walking down the Enterprise's corridors or sitting around Quark's waiting for my holo suite to open while wearing full costume
During my time in the SCA I got quite used to walking around in public in my costume; it's one of the things people in that group just become accustomed to.
The only time it's a problem is when some twit on the street makes a dumb or mocking remark (no, when a man is walking around wearing a tunic and hose, he is not wearing a dress!).
But there would always be a way for you to make it right, if you just use your imagination. That was the problem with Data's standup showcase program... Data made it, & he clearly wasn't imaginative enough to work that out. Geordi accidentally programmed a character that either was self aware, or was so nearly perfect at demonstrating it, that no one could tell the difference. You just need to know how to apply your craftsmanship to creating a realistic program
That's the thing. In reality, the less imaginative people would clamor for brilliant holoauthors to create programs which sweep them away, just like we currently have game designers who spend years crafting an Elder Scrolls game
The problem with the way the holodeck is often used on the show is that they show it used for social interaction, or playing roles in stories with a predetermined outcome. I think this is not how it would normally be used in real life, other than for X rated uses. The way I think it'd really be used is for things like O'Brien's kayaking or other physical activities you just can't do on a starship.
The whole notion of holo-novels is kind of odd. The idea that anybody would want to jump into a simulated environment knowing that it follows a set story with a predetermined outcome. How would that even work? How could a program ever account for all possible actions a person could take while still funneling everyone toward the same outcome? It wouldn't be like a video game where they do it by staging most of the dialog and only giving you a handful of choices. Playing in a holonovel would be like acting in a play with no audience. Real holonovels would have to be adaptable to any possible character actions.
And the only ones who would ever recreate Leonardo Davinci are teachers so their students could ask him questions and learn about him.
The whole notion of holo-novels is kind of odd. The idea that anybody would want to jump into a simulated environment knowing that it follows a set story with a predetermined outcome. How would that even work? How could a program ever account for all possible actions a person could take while still funneling everyone toward the same outcome? It wouldn't be like a video game where they do it by staging most of the dialog and only giving you a handful of choices. Playing in a holonovel would be like acting in a play with no audience. Real holonovels would have to be adaptable to any possible character actions.
And the only ones who would ever recreate Leonardo Davinci are teachers so their students could ask him questions and learn about him.
Yes, holonovels do appear to be the worst. Even if the one in "Author, Author" hadn't been written by a raging egomaniac, in my opinion it would have failed as both a novel and an interactive experience.
To me, it failed as a novel because it pretty much removed a lot of what I read novels for; there's no insight into any history, world building or characters anymore. How can there e, if the main character is reduced to an avatar for the user? If I look at my favourite novels I enjoy them because of the characters so it would be detrimental to my enjoyment if one of them was replaced by me and the inds of all the others were closed to me.
It fails as an interactive experience because it seems to remove agendy from the user. What I remember of "Author, Author" nobody who played the holonovel was given a choice in how to act and the whole thing seemed like a lose connection of scenes (granted that could be because the EMH is a hack writer)
Often it almost seams like the people who played holonovels memorized a script beforehand, like it was just another way to experience a story you already knew (and that well enough to take over a part)
I just can't see this sort of "Skyrim Larping" replace novels, television, movies and coputer games as we know them.
Even if you are just renacting scenes from your favourite novels/movies. If I was to, let's say, cast myself as Aragorn in a Holo-adaption of the Lord of the Rings. Would the program require me to be as athletic as a guy who lived as a hunter in the wilderness for most of his life? Would it require me to have his level of sword fighting? Horse riding? What happens if I fail some jump or swordfight? Does the program ignore that? Then where's the challenge?
Also makes me wonder, though I'm afraid to ask, if I'd, for instance take the role of Daenerys in Song of Ice and Fire.... how would the love making scenes work? I'm a guy, she's a girl. I don't have the equipment required for that.
And that even leaves out stuff like Watership Down, Call of the Wild or Last Unicorn. I'm not a rabbit/wolf/unicorn. So would these books be impossible to adapt?
Makes me really worry that holo-novels would bring about a sort of "death of the main character" and reduce most narratives to a (completely featureless) POV character having rather shallow interactions with a virtual world. Essentially, it makes me worry that it would turn everything into the effing Elder Scrolls series.
To me, it failed as a novel because it pretty much removed a lot of what I read novels for; there's no insight into any history, world building or characters anymore. How can there e, if the main character is reduced to an avatar for the user? If I look at my favourite novels I enjoy them because of the characters so it would be detrimental to my enjoyment if one of them was replaced by me and the inds of all the others were closed to me.
It fails as an interactive experience because it seems to remove agendy from the user. What I remember of "Author, Author" nobody who played the holonovel was given a choice in how to act and the whole thing seemed like a lose connection of scenes (granted that could be because the EMH is a hack writer)
Often it almost seams like the people who played holonovels memorized a script beforehand, like it was just another way to experience a story you already knew (and that well enough to take over a part)
I just can't see this sort of "Skyrim Larping" replace novels, television, movies and coputer games as we know them.
Even if you are just renacting scenes from your favourite novels/movies. If I was to, let's say, cast myself as Aragorn in a Holo-adaption of the Lord of the Rings. Would the program require me to be as athletic as a guy who lived as a hunter in the wilderness for most of his life? Would it require me to have his level of sword fighting? Horse riding? What happens if I fail some jump or swordfight? Does the program ignore that? Then where's the challenge?
Also makes me wonder, though I'm afraid to ask, if I'd, for instance take the role of Daenerys in Song of Ice and Fire.... how would the love making scenes work? I'm a guy, she's a girl. I don't have the equipment required for that.
And that even leaves out stuff like Watership Down, Call of the Wild or Last Unicorn. I'm not a rabbit/wolf/unicorn. So would these books be impossible to adapt?
Makes me really worry that holo-novels would bring about a sort of "death of the main character" and reduce most narratives to a (completely featureless) POV character having rather shallow interactions with a virtual world. Essentially, it makes me worry that it would turn everything into the effing Elder Scrolls series.
I can't wrap my head around how Reg is called out for recreating the crew as if it's unusual that someone would do that, recreate people they know. C'mon. Unless the entire human psyche is different in the 24th century, that would be one of the most common things people did with it.
Hell, I myself would probably start a holographic pit fighting program, where we could collect stats on the crew and wager on who could kick who's ass. It would be a bare knuckle fantasy league
Hell, I myself would probably start a holographic pit fighting program, where we could collect stats on the crew and wager on who could kick who's ass. It would be a bare knuckle fantasy league
^Troi actually claimed it was healthy (though she still got pissy when she saw that Barclay had modeled his sextoy after her) it was mainly Riker who gave him grief about it.
What's really weird is that Riker was able to just delete the NPC modeled after him out of Barclay's program. Can anybody just barge into your holo adventure and change things nilly-willy? Imagine the pranks....
The problem with Reg was not so much recreating people he knew but that he allowed his enjoyment of the holodeck to get in conflict with his work performance.
I will freely admit that I'd use the holodeck to slap people that annoy me without repercussions.
What's really weird is that Riker was able to just delete the NPC modeled after him out of Barclay's program. Can anybody just barge into your holo adventure and change things nilly-willy? Imagine the pranks....
The problem with Reg was not so much recreating people he knew but that he allowed his enjoyment of the holodeck to get in conflict with his work performance.
I will freely admit that I'd use the holodeck to slap people that annoy me without repercussions.
I should think that Riker's position as First Officer gives him extra authority over holodeck programs, and he can override other peoples' program settings.
As for pranks... I'm not sure about who had the ultimate say over the Fair Haven holoprogram on Voyager, but Tom did turn Harry's holo-girlfriend into a cow right at the time when Harry was kissing her.
Plus, you could consider their holodeck as work property, like a job computer. Even if some of what you have on their is personal, it's still not yours and therefore kind of public domain, in a way
As for recreating people you know, Geordi calls it unusual, when he first finds Reg & later before Riker bursts in. Riker views it as abhorrent. It's as if it's never occurred to any of them to do that, & I find that a little unbelievable
As for recreating people you know, Geordi calls it unusual, when he first finds Reg & later before Riker bursts in. Riker views it as abhorrent. It's as if it's never occurred to any of them to do that, & I find that a little unbelievable
Maybe it's one of those things that Starfleet culture finds abhorrent but civilians don't? 
It does seem unprofessional and disrespectful to recreate colleagues without their permission.
It does seem unprofessional and disrespectful to recreate colleagues without their permission.
