If you love the Enterprise…

[cooleddie74]

Except even using TAS designs was blatant retconning of stuff that didn’t yet exist. You can bet Matt Jefferies would have done something different.


My take on the Antares while trying to ignore everything after 1966.

I love the scale on this, by the way. About 100 meters long, which is about the same size as Beverly's medical ship in Season 3 of PIC.

 

[Tallguy]

CBS and TOS-R haven’t got an ounce of credibility.

I think there's a very very VERY wide gap between "Not how I would have done it" and that.

 

[BK613]

I'm not sure how using the robot ship from TAS is any different than using rings on a ship that's supposed to be WNMHGB's Valiant. Both are post-TOS ideas.
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/unseen-tos.307165/page-92#post-14588671

 

[Metryq]

If you’re claiming to respect the original work and source material then you do it.

Many of the TOS-R exterior shots made the Enterprise look like '90s videogame renderings—high contrast, shiny, metallic hull plates.

The original TOS Enterprise composites had an almost pastel look because of the fill light needed to extract clean mattes from the bluescreen background. Intentional or not, that dovetailed with the costumes, sets and lighting of the interiors. It made a unified production design.

The artists for Star Trek Continues managed to maintain this "pastel" look for their exterior renderings.

 

[Warped9]

I'm not sure how using the robot ship from TAS is any different than using rings on a ship that's supposed to be WNMHGB's Valiant. Both are post-TOS ideas.
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/unseen-tos.307165/page-92#post-14588671

Jefferies was playing around with a ringship concept when he was developing the design for the TOS E. So he already had the idea in mind back in the mid ‘60s.

 

[cooleddie74]

Speaking of a ship named Enterprise I really like and at times love the 1701-A bridge built for TFF and find it superior to the bridge made using its components for TUC. The smooth flatscreen control interfaces and simple feel to this bridge along with the color pallette heavy in cool blues and greens really add to the cozy feel of this design. A bridge I wish had carried over into the sixth film but after the fifth failed at the box office and became so unpopular I get why they wanted to change as many details as possible the next time they assembled these set pieces.

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[blssdwlf]

Many of the TOS-R exterior shots made the Enterprise look like '90s videogame renderings—high contrast, shiny, metallic hull plates.

The original TOS Enterprise composites had an almost pastel look because of the fill light needed to extract clean mattes from the bluescreen background. Intentional or not, that dovetailed with the costumes, sets and lighting of the interiors. It made a unified production design.

The artists for Star Trek Continues managed to maintain this "pastel" look for their exterior renderings.

I think the STC artists had the benefit of newer renderers and faster hardware than what the TOS-R artists (CBS Digital) had almost a decade? earlier. They might not have been as rushed as CBS Digital was as well.

I do agree that the TOS-R Enterprise shots do not look as good as the original ship FX.

 

[Metryq]

I think the STC artists had the benefit of newer renderers and faster hardware than what the TOS-R artists (CBS Digital) had almost a decade? earlier.

Mmmmmaybe. I was doing a lot of 3D rendering (medical animations) in the mid-to-late '90s with ElectricImage, then reputed to be the fastest renderer on the planet. The hardware was everyday Macintoshes—no tricked out SGI machines with Incredible Hulk GPUs and enough RAM to split the case. Just everyday Macs. (That is, I had one machine as my primary, authoring machine, and two beige generation Macs as my "render farm.")

I believe ElectricImage is what ILM used for the Star Wars "special editions." So the pipeline was well able to do images like those seen in Star Trek Continues. I have no special knowledge of the TOS-R pipeline, but my gut feeling is that they were either very rushed (on a project like that?), made some bad artistic judgments, or some producer/director stuck their oar in the water and made some bad decisions. (It happens; it's not always the artists.)

 

[Tallguy]

I always approach TOS R with the firm reminder to myself that they did what they did under conditions that most people here never have (especially me): a budget and a schedule.

 

[Warped9]

I have no special knowledge of the TOS-R pipeline, but my gut feeling is that they were either very rushed (on a project like that?), made some bad artistic judgments, or some producer/director stuck their oar in the water and made some bad decisions. (It happens; it's not always the artists.)

Back in the ‘70s they were whole hog on reimagining what the Star Trek universe looked like because they were convinced the look of TOS could not work on the big screen. But decades later, despite me loathing the JJtrek films, it did show that something like the TOS style could work on the big screen.

I have little doubt a similar mindset was at work on TOS-R, the thinking being that the only way to do updated fx was to make them look more like contemporary Trek productions. The idea of trying to make them look like clean state-of-the-art 1960’s fx was likely considered unacceptable.

 

[fireproof78]

I always approach TOS R with the firm reminder to myself that they did what they did under conditions that most people here never have (especially me): a budget and a schedule.

Indeed. There is limitations and expectations set. As with all products.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

CBS and TOS-R haven’t got an ounce of credibility.

I get that you don't like TOS-R and why. I even agree to an extent.

Not an ounce of credibility though? Heading into firm hyperbole territory there.

 

[blssdwlf]

Mmmmmaybe. I was doing a lot of 3D rendering (medical animations) in the mid-to-late '90s with ElectricImage, then reputed to be the fastest renderer on the planet. The hardware was everyday Macintoshes—no tricked out SGI machines with Incredible Hulk GPUs and enough RAM to split the case. Just everyday Macs. (That is, I had one machine as my primary, authoring machine, and two beige generation Macs as my "render farm.")

I believe ElectricImage is what ILM used for the Star Wars "special editions." So the pipeline was well able to do images like those seen in Star Trek Continues. I have no special knowledge of the TOS-R pipeline, but my gut feeling is that they were either very rushed (on a project like that?), made some bad artistic judgments, or some producer/director stuck their oar in the water and made some bad decisions. (It happens; it's not always the artists.)

Back in the mid 90's I used 3D Studio in our corporate multimedia department but I do remember ElectricImage. We used PCs. A buddy of mine would occasionally use Lightwave on his Amiga for some jobs but he was primarily a 3D Studio guy. I moved over to Lightwave 8 in 2012 and continued to use it as a hobbyist and occasional freelancer.

I found at Memory Alpha that for the remaster in 2006 they used Maya. I would've thought they used Lightwave.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Remaster

It seems to me that every year the software gets better and hardware gets faster so that space scenes that would've taken forever to render in 2006 in HD would take far less time and look far more closer to how it would have looked if filmed practically in a studio if rendered years later. However those TOS-R textures would need to be redone as they didn't look good up close.

Of course they would still need to contend with schedule and budget. I wonder if the STC artists had more time...

 

[Warped9]

I wonder if the STC artists had more time...

They certainly had a different objective: try to make the new fit more seamlessly with the old in terms of overall aesthetic. They weren’t perfect, but they were way ahead of TOS-R.

 

[fireproof78]

I wonder if the STC artists had more time...

Yes, they do. They have a different approach to this project.

Not good; not bad. Just different.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

The STC guys didn't have a strict deadline to get 79 episodes done. I'm aware of the flaws in TOSR, but also remember that compared to the STC guys who were compositing shots for what... a few 'episodes' a year?

TOSR did not have nearly the luxury of time that a fan film did. The work took a long time and while it was happening, it was pretty much non-stop.

 

[Redfern]

...I really like and at times love the 1701-A bridge built for TFF and find it superior to the bridge made using its components for TUC.

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I've watched several of this person's videos. Cool stuff. I just have this uncontrollable urge to shout "Sanctuary!" every time he sounds that "bell" for emphasis.

"Blah, blah, blah..."

*BONG!*

"Sanctuary!"

"Blah, blah, blah..."

*BONG!*

"Sanctuary!"

 

[Tallguy]

Speaking of a ship named Enterprise I really like and at times love the 1701-A bridge built for TFF and find it superior to the bridge made using its components for TUC. The smooth flatscreen control interfaces and simple feel to this bridge along with the color pallette heavy in cool blues and greens really add to the cozy feel of this design. A bridge I wish had carried over into the sixth film but after the fifth failed at the box office and became so unpopular I get why they wanted to change as many details as possible the next time they assembled these set pieces.

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It's a great bridge. It's a natural extension of the TVH bridge with the original Okudagrams. But there was no way Nick "Submarine in SPACE" Meyer was going to go with that carpet.

Funny he mentioned the viewscreen. It occurred to me watching TVH yesterday that Nimoy made sure ALL the displays (I might have missed some, I guess) are live, including the Bird of Prey's viewer. The Enterprise viewer was never seen. In their own way those shots in the Federation Council with the "evidence" footage are kind of breathtaking. Although I never noticed before that when the council is watching the Enterprise blow up they're watching in 4:3, but then it shows us the footage in 2.35:1!

And of course there was a live main viewer in Spock's Brain.

 

[publiusr]

Except even using TAS designs was blatant retconning of stuff that didn’t yet exist. You can bet Matt Jefferies would have done something different.


My take on the Antares while trying to ignore everything after 1966.

Such a nice design.

For the Ultimate Computer…I might have CGI of all three of the 11 footers looks..the two pilots (toast)…and the Commodore’s ship the three footer or something.