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If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

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I'm imagining the OP sitting there wearing his uniform and vulcan ears while cracking his knuckles. "Time to purge fandom of the heretics who have sworn allegiance to the false god of ST09! bwahahaha"

Anyway, I was hoping for a more vigorous defense of Nemesis than "humanistic". Part of me wants to believe it was almost a good movie.
 
In a contest between a terrible movie that was a another painful re-concluding of TNG vs a forgettable but entertaining romp, I'd sooner not spend too much time on either.

But if I had to choose, I feel my fan "cred" would actually be saved a bit by going with the one that was at least entertaining without hurting much, rather than the abomination.

It's like choosing between watching Leave it to Beaver, or getting hit by a sock full of batteries. I'd go with the beaver and feel no shame.
 
The Dominion said:
In a contest between a terrible movie that was a another painful re-concluding of TNG vs a forgettable but entertaining romp, I'd sooner not spend too much time on either.

But if I had to choose, I feel my fan "cred" would actually be saved a bit by going with the one that was at least entertaining without hurting much, rather than the abomination.

It's like choosing between watching Leave it to Beaver, or getting hit by a sock full of batteries. I'd go with the beaver and feel no shame.
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what do you mean by another painful re-concluding of TNG? When was there an attempted conclusion of TNG before?
 
trek_futurist said:
KingDaniel said:
trek_futurist said:
No, most of the blunders between TOS and TNG were either mistakes or lapses in memory on the part of the writers. Nothing that intentionally devours canon as in ENT and the 2009 thing.
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Bullshit. One of the most egregious "deficatiing", as you put it, was the TNG+ Klingons. Klingons were never honorable warriors. The honorable warriors were the Romulans, as evidenced in Balance of Terror. Klingons were nasty, slimy thugs who farted in airlocks (just ask David Gerrold). Therefore, the deviations in Klingons from TNG onward were purposeful disregard for true Trek canon.

Or something...
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I left Nemesis thinking, "Man, that was disappointing."

I left Star Trek '09 thinking, "That was awesome!"

And yet...somehow...I still manage to enjoy lots of other Star Trek shows and movies. It's just crazy how that works out!

I like the ST09 better than Nemesis because Nemesis sucked balls. It has nothing to do with whether one of those movies is more true to the spirit of Star Trek than the other. ST09 is simply more entertaining.
 
I will say that I don't think that Nemesis was nearly as bad as I hear it get a rap for. It certainly wasn't great, but I enjoyed it plenty enough. ST09 is probably my favorite of the movies though. It is a movie that I just had a ton of fun watching. It may not have been a cinematic masterpiece, but I enjoyed it and I had fun. I'm finding more and more that that's important to me- if the movie doesn't emotional suck me in or get me invested, then I want to have fun. That's where I have become so enthralled with movies like ST09, Sherlock Holmes, and The A-Team. I came out of those movies and I had an absolute blast!
 
I think the main reason Nemesis bugs me is that it's the last TNG movie. As their grand finale, it should really be a lot more than it is. I didn't mind it all that much in the theater, but after it became clear that there would be no more TNG, it bothers me knowing that NEM is the end.

And hell, no Trek movie has ever packed as emotional a punch as ST09 did. I was sobbing ten minutes into the movie with the destruction of the Kelvin the death of George Kirk. And then the movie shocked the hell out of me when they killed off Amanda! I was completely blown away.

Data died in NEM, and the most I could think was, "Well, good thing he downloaded his consciousness in B-4 earlier in the movie."
 
^The first 10 minutes were amazing! I don't think any other movie has gotten me quite like the opening parts of ST09 did. It still gets me everytime I see it. I was shocked by the bold move to kill Amanda and destroy Vulcan, though it was less of an emotional response and more just being shocked that they would make a move like that. My reaction to those two things was very similar to my reaction in Avatar when they destroyed home tree. "Bah, they're the good guys. They won't really destroy the good guy's "base".... Holy shit, they actually did it!!!"

I definitely agree that Data's death had no punch to it and havig B-4 really didn't help its cause either.
 
snowman1701 said:
I was shocked by the bold move to kill Amanda and destroy Vulcan, though it was less of an emotional response and more just being shocked that they would make a move like that. My reaction to those two things was very similar to my reaction in Avatar when they destroyed home tree. "Bah, they're the good guys. They won't really destroy the good guy's "base".... Holy shit, they actually did it!!!"
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Yeah, that was my same reaction. I think I sat there with my mouth wide open in amazement when I realized that Amanda had just fucking fallen off a cliff. My emotional reaction came later when I saw Spock...and then when Sarek comes by and tells Spock the real reason he married Amanda..."because I loved her."

Man, for an emotionless race, they managed to get some pretty strong reactions out of me!
 
I like both movies and I would not pass up the chance to watch either over most reality shows, anything but Terra Nova on Monday nights, and WWE on Syfy (how the hell did that happen?).
 
Jeyl said:
Yeah, I don't like Nemesis, but I don't like Trek09 either. Yet I'm still a huge Star Trek fan regardless. Still, don't you think it's funny that Trek09 and Nemesis share many similar elements with each other?

- Both reference Wrath of Khan.
- Both have a self-indulging car chase moment that doesn't do anything important.
- Both tried to appeal to a wider audience (One worked, one didn't)
- Both feature a villain who is bald, worked as miners for the Romulans, have a ship with superior technology, a vendetta against a particular crew member on the Enterprise and a planet destroying weapon that is later used against them.
- Both feature a piece of transporter technology that should change the very nature of space travel, but will most likely be forgotten in the next installment.
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Yeah it's amazing, isn't it?
 
JarodRussell said:
Jeyl said:
Yeah, I don't like Nemesis, but I don't like Trek09 either. Yet I'm still a huge Star Trek fan regardless. Still, don't you think it's funny that Trek09 and Nemesis share many similar elements with each other?

- Both reference Wrath of Khan.
- Both have a self-indulging car chase moment that doesn't do anything important.
- Both tried to appeal to a wider audience (One worked, one didn't)
- Both feature a villain who is bald, worked as miners for the Romulans, have a ship with superior technology, a vendetta against a particular crew member on the Enterprise and a planet destroying weapon that is later used against them.
- Both feature a piece of transporter technology that should change the very nature of space travel, but will most likely be forgotten in the next installment.
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Yeah it's amazing, isn't it?
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yeah, I brought up the "they're more similar than people think" thing earlier. It is kind of ironic. Just goes to show how much proper execution counts.

also, both have a weakly motivated central villain whose resentment at one of the heroes makes no sense whatsoever.
 
sonak said:
also, both have a weakly motivated central villain whose resentment at one of the heroes makes no sense whatsoever.
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At least with Nero you can make the excuse that he was grief-stricken and then spent 25 years rotting in a prison. His sanity may be impaired.

Shinzon is just whiney.
 
Well, yeah, but he didn't know any better. Nero was a good, honest man who lost everything. Shinzon grew up in a mine and won his freedom by focusing his work on overthrowing the Romulans. Then, suddenly, he decides to destroy Earth...for what reason?

Shinzon really didn't bother me until the back half of the film when he started dying and went crazy. Normal people don't continue walking after they've been impaled by random spikes.
 
RoJoHen said:
At least with Nero you can make the excuse that he was grief-stricken and then spent 25 years rotting in a prison. His sanity may be impaired. Shinzon is just whiney.
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Except that Nero wasn't ever in prison...they cut that plotline out. All he did was just sit around in his gigantic spaceship for 25 years.

RoJoHen said:
Normal people don't continue walking after they've been impaled by random spikes.
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That happens quite a lot actually. I'm constantly surprised by what the human body will endure and keep running "normally".
 
Tosk said:
RoJoHen said:
At least with Nero you can make the excuse that he was grief-stricken and then spent 25 years rotting in a prison. His sanity may be impaired. Shinzon is just whiney.
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Except that Nero wasn't ever in prison...they cut that plotline out. All he did was just sit around in his gigantic spaceship for 25 years.
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Well, that would be enough to drive me nuts.

RoJoHen said:
Normal people don't continue walking after they've been impaled by random spikes.
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That happens quite a lot actually. I'm constantly surprised by what the human body will endure and keep running "normally".
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Um...I'm going to need you to cite instances where this happens "a lot." I am personally unaware of many real people who have been impaled.
 
trek_futurist said:
.....Well, quite simply put, you are not a Star trek fan.
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"Fan" is a dimminutive form of "fanatic", and being a fanatic about something doesn't mean you have to agree with other fans about it. As such, you proceed from a fatally flawed presumption ergo the rest of your original post is moot.
 
 
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