If you could rewrite Voyager

[MakeshiftPython]

That's just the other crazy thing. She seemed more willing and at ease to negotiate with THE BORG than she did with the Kazon.

I think had they gotten rid of that speech at the end of "Alliances" about staying their ground, I think that would have served as her breakthrough moment. Heck, that scene with Tuvok and the flower was sufficient enough to be that moment.

Plus I simply hated that speech at the end because it just struck me as the show saying it's not going to take chances and that they'll just do what they've always done. Thankfully the rest of the show didn't feel like more of the same at least in regards to the first two seasons.

 

[Nyotarules]

After reading Chakotay's reports on Scorpion, Janeway is charged with aiding and abetting the assimilation of billions by saving the Borg. She is sentenced to life imprisonment with no parole on Delta Vega.

 

[at Quark's]

That's just the other crazy thing. She seemed more willing and at ease to negotiate with THE BORG than she did with the Kazon.

Well, it was very much a 'damned if we do, damned if we don't' situation in Scorpion. The way things looked, the choice was between either letting species 8472 annihilate all life in the galaxy, or letting the Borg continue to assimilate species. That they thoroughly retconned species 8472 later on, doesn't change that. Suppose there would have been no threat from species 8472 at all, and the Borg were willing to negotiate about a shortcut home in exchange for an item that would have made them stronger. In that case, I think Janeway would have absolutely refused to negotiate.

 

[Refuge]

I like this, too. You just have to be careful, though. With Chakotay and B'elanna wearing leather, the audience might mistake them for villains.

That's so cool!

 

[Refuge]

I thought he was quite good in Timeless, one of the best of the series.

I liked Harry at times and never got the gripe he needed to be promoted to be of worth. Hardly anyone got promoted.

 

[Refuge]

Thanks Refuge. I also would have hunted Ransom down but I agree with Chakotay that she crossed the line doing so. She tried to justify questionable tactics with accomplishing her goal. In the end she realised that but it had an unintended impact on the crew. There is a clear unease at the end of the episode. Imo it would have been a good time to change things up, throw a new set of circumstances at them and see where it led. It gives us fresh writing and new ideas. Instead we had the reset button pushed. I've always felt it was a missed opportunity.

Chakotay had a quiet strength. I think we often see our leaders under pressure and that emotion represents what a good leader can achieve but with Chakotay he was firm and he stood his ground.

You know it takes strength of character to be thrown in the brig and not pout!

 

[Vger23]

I wouldn't have changed a huge amount...but:

1. I would have made 7of9 a little less the "stand-in Spock / Data" character
2. Like DS9, I would have developed a set of secondary characters a little more deeply to make Voyager feel more like an evolving community in space
3. Downplayed the Borg

 

[Discofan]

Less Kim (much less), Neelix,Chak (especially the "ethnic" episodes).

More The Doctor, Kes, Seven, Tom

Same amount of Tuvok, Janeway.

 

[catshadowsi8]

Chakotay had a quiet strength. I think we often see our leaders under pressure and that emotion represents what a good leader can achieve but with Chakotay he was firm and he stood his ground.

You know it takes strength of character to be thrown in the brig and not pout!

I agree about Chakotay and I see a lot of people wishing there was more conflict between the Maquis/Starfleet crew and Janeway/ Chakotay in particular but it made sense to me how things played out. Let me explain.

It's clear from the beginning Chakotay is a seasoned captain. Janeway is untested. It's her first real command as captain of Voyager. Chakotay's crew is also completely loyal to him as evidenced in the first episode. His orders are followed without question. This is reinforced in Learning Curve by Janeway herself. Of course the exception is Tuvok and to certain extent Seska but they are spies and don't factor in imo. Throughout the series he also portrayed as pragmatic. He is not bound by an unbreakable set of rules imposed by someone else aka Starfleet. Suddenly he is thrust 70 years away from home and the only ship that can take them back is Voyager. He knows they cannot survive on their own. So he does what's best for his crew. Tow the line, adapt, compromise, work with what you have, keep the Maquis in line but most importantly survive and protect those under you. He pretty much tells Janeway in Alliances that's the Maquis way...make allies wherever you can even if its distasteful. He also never forgets he is Maquis as shown in Life Line for example.

As for Janeway she is smart enough to realise Chakotay is a seasoned war captain, not just peace time, but war. For me this is a huge factor in her decision. Already by the end of episode 1 she is at war with the Kazon. Add to this she has no way to replenish her own crew with people familiar with the alpa quadrant technology and she needs the Maquis. Throwing 30+ people in the brig for even a few weeks wastes resources and crew personnel guarding them. She either kicks them or recruits them. She chooses the later but needs to keep the Maquis chain of command in place to make it work. She has no choice. She must make their captain first officer.

For me both decisions by Chakotay and Janeway fit with the characters as envisioned by the writers. It works as long as they are stranded so far from home. Bring them back and who knows. Makes for some interesting story. Tjmo Sorry this post is so long.

 

[Refuge]

I agree about Chakotay and I see a lot of people wishing there was more conflict between the Marquis/Starfleet crew and Janeway/ Chakotay in particular but it made sense to me how things played out. Let me explain. It's clear from the beginning Chakotay is a seasoned captain. Janeway is untested. It's her first real command as captain of Voyager. Chakotay's crew is also completely loyal to him as evidenced in the first episode. His orders are followed without question. This is reinforced in Learning Curve by Janeway herself. Of course the exception is Tuvok and to certain extent Seska but they are spies and don't factor in imo. Throughout the series he also portrayed as pragmatic. He is not bound by an unbreakable set of rules imposed by someone else aka Starfleet. Suddenly he is thrust 70 years away from home and the only ship that can take them back is Voyager. He knows they cannot survive on their own. So he does what's best for his crew. Tow the line, adapt, compromise, work with what you have, keep the Marquis in line but most importantly survive and protect those under you. He pretty much tells Janeway in Alliances that's the Marquis way...make allies wherever you can even if its distasteful. He also never forgets he is Marquis as shown in Life Line for example. As for Janeway she is smart enough to realise Chakotay is a seasoned war captain, not just peace time, but war. For me this is a huge factor in her decision. Already by the end of episode 1 she is at war with the Kazon. Add to this she has no way to replenish her own crew with people familiar with the alpa quadrant technology and she needs the Marquis. Throwing 30+ people in the brig for even a few weeks wastes resources and crew personnel guarding them. She either kicks them or recruits them. She chooses the later but needs to keep the Marquis chain of command in place to make it work. She has no choice. She must make their captain first officer. For me both decisions by Chakotay and Janeway fit with the characters as envisioned by the writers. It works as long as they are stranded so far from home. Bring them back and who knows. Makes for some interesting story. Tjmo Sorry this post is so long.

That was a really good read mostly because you took the perspective of Chakotay with respect, (he is often underrated). Respect to his background and capabilities as a leader. I hadn't thought about his expertise as being more *battle* experienced let alone having to keep a rag tag crew loyal to him. Obviously he knew Starfleet ways but he also brought to the table a different kind of people skills that Janeway quickly learned. She did adapt and I kind of admired the way she swallowed her pride or whatever it could be called and recognised that in merging the two ships the Maquis crew needed to be seen as a resource.

 

[catshadowsi8]

That was a really good read mostly because you took the perspective of Chakotay with respect, (he is often underrated). Respect to his background and capabilities as a leader. I hadn't thought about his expertise as being more *battle* experienced let alone having to keep a rag tag crew loyal to him. Obviously he knew Starfleet ways but he also brought to the table a different kind of people skills that Janeway quickly learned. She did adapt and I kind of admired the way she swallowed her pride or whatever it could be called and recognised that in merging the two ships the Maquis crew needed to be seen as a resource.

Thanks and I totally agree with your comments Refuge. Janeway proved she could look past traditional lines, accept her limitations regarding the Marquis in this situation. It would have been easy for her to hide behind Starfleet protocol. She did not. Makes her a superior captain imo.

 

[Prax]

That's so cool!

Thanks. He's a stud in any body as long as there's leather.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Oh my Tharpdevenport And that I came to believe I was one of the few to have a problem with the Maquis and Chakotay/Torres!

 

[tharpdevenport]

I only want to brutalize and torture the characters until the end of the show, which some of them may not survive.

 

[Discofan]

I would include a need for repair once in a while... Just to make it a little more real.

 

[catshadowsi8]

I only want to brutalize and torture the characters until the end of the show, which some of them may not survive.

You would have made a great villian. Lol

 

[Discofan]

Have a larger set of regulars like twenty, instead of five or six. And maybe once in a great while, one of the regulars would be killed so that people who'd never know who's gonna make it.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Have a larger set of regulars like twenty, instead of five or six. And maybe once in a great while, one of the regulars would be killed so that people who'd never know who's gonna make it.

"Before and After" suggesting this is what could happen has always made me wish we had something like that. I don't think I would have killed Janeway, just because Mulgrew has such a strong presence as a lead that I'm not sure Beltran would have fulfilled. Killing Harry would have been a pretty easy thing to do, but then again that's exactly what was planned before UPN stepped in and thought Garrett Wang being listed as People Magazine's most beautiful people was more important because that's how desperate they were for ratings (kinda explains why Seven was always in a catsuit no matter how much the writers tries to not sexualize her in any capacity).

 

[catshadowsi8]

Realistically the premise was the first female captain so unless Chakotay underwent a sex change he was never going to sit in that chair full time.

 

[fireproof78]

I wouldn't have changed a huge amount...but:

1. I would have made 7of9 a little less the "stand-in Spock / Data" character
2. Like DS9, I would have developed a set of secondary characters a little more deeply to make Voyager feel more like an evolving community in space
3. Downplayed the Borg

Short, sweet and to the point. It works for me.