No doubt. But it was suggested that that was the main or only reason that one might dislike Voyager, or think it hadn't achieved its potential. And that's just not so.I think some people do resent Janeway being female...
If you could rewrite Voyager
- Thread starter Trekboy1993
- Start date
Nobody likes them.
No, not so at all. I've heard many complaints about VOY, but this is one of the few times that I've heard the captain's gender being thrown out as why people hate VOY. And, actually, what's more interesting to me is that it is often thrown out by VOY defenders telling a person they don't like VOY because of Janeway's gender...what?
Stoned?
That's a really great idea. I love it!
Yeah, it's too bad he never got that promotion. His mom should've written Janeway a letter explaining how valuable a member of the crew he was.
I like this, too. You just have to be careful, though. With Chakotay and B'elanna wearing leather, the audience might mistake them for villains.
I've read that a lot of Native Americans were big fans of Chakotay. If he were pinned down to one specific tribe, would that change?
This is a civilized place, for civilized folk.
It's quite often that people post things like "Janeway was insane," "Insaneway," "Janeway was bipolar," "Janeway was a terrible captain," "Janeway should be court-martialed," "Janeway was written inconsistently," et al. (IME)These statements are almost always left unqualified, and any of these complaints could equally be made toward Kirk, Picard, Sisko, or even Archer. With Janeway, it's become a popular narrative among Trekkums.No, not so at all. I've heard many complaints about VOY, but this is one of the few times that I've heard the captain's gender being thrown out as why people hate VOY. And, actually, what's more interesting to me is that it is often thrown out by VOY defenders telling a person they don't like VOY because of Janeway's gender...what?
I highly doubt anyone is thinking "Gosh, I just hate that Captain Janeway! She's such a woman!" let alone write it here, but on other, less regulated places online, you will see "Janeway is such a stupid b***h," or "Janeway is a dumb c**t." And frequently.
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I thought he was quite good in Timeless, one of the best of the series.
I beg to differ. We saw him bitter and brooding, sure, but he did that a lot in the series. Kim is the most anhedonic character of the series and maybe of all series. Even when he was "in love" he seemed unhappy. Besides the story doesn't make any sense if he was in love with the woman he would have followed her.
Hi catshadowi8, welcome to the forum
I was so on Janeway's side regards Ransom and the Equinox. If it had been me I would've hunted him down too and kicked his arse.
Thanks Refuge. I also would have hunted Ransom down but I agree with Chakotay that she crossed the line doing so. She tried to justify questionable tactics with accomplishing her goal. In the end she realised that but it had an unintended impact on the crew. There is a clear unease at the end of the episode. Imo it would have been a good time to change things up, throw a new set of circumstances at them and see where it led. It gives us fresh writing and new ideas. Instead we had the reset button pushed. I've always felt it was a missed opportunity.
"
DUKAT: Tell me, Weyoun, have you ever been diagnosed as anhedonic?
WEYOUN: You think I'm incapable of experiencing joy just because I'm cautious? "
I actually had some ideas in a thread from a few years ago. Sadly, it's passed one year since the last post, so we can't continue using it:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/re-doing-voyager.262558/page-10
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/re-doing-voyager.262558/page-10
Yes, that's too bad.
And so I'll just re-port my ideas from the other thread!
Hum, interesting idea -- what to redo.
Well, first off, we dump the stupid Caretaker plot and we make it far, far more dramatic.
Instead of being dragged over there, say Voyager was perusing the Marquis into an unstable area of space. Say they were ambushed by several Marquis vessels and a battle insures where we get to see what Voyager has to offer.
Shields fluctuate and terrorists get onboard, kidnapping an officer (how about Harry? He sees like a guy that gets kidnapped often) and beaming out.
The chief engineer is killed during the boarding.
Like TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise", there's a fierce folly of photon (and quantum) torpedoes and a violent rift opens, swallowing Voyager and one of the Marquis ships.
The journey is harsh and both ships are spit out the other side damaged. Voyager's shields fail, the rift closes, and Paris informs Janeway the enemy vessel's core is going critical. She orders an immediate beam out. They get them and the Marquis ship blows, leaving Voyager without shields and the debris impacts the ship, causing more damage.
There's some struggles and stand offs (I'll leave that open here) and we get Chacotay, Tuvok (still under cover -- I'll keep that plot point) and Torres (only Torres is not Klingon, she's Romulan, adding greatly to the tense situation on the ship with her build-in distrust of Starfleet and humans).
They are put in the brig, except Tuvok, which enrages Chacotay when he finds out the double cross.
Meanwhile back on the Bridge, Janeway has found out not only are they badly damaged, but they are several lights years from the alpha quadrant (maybe not 70, but 50, making it more achievable but also still keeping it far off).
Immediate repairs are ordered. Just as shields have been regained, they are attacked by an unidentified vessel. People are injured, the doctor has to bring the Emergency Medical Hologram online to help, and the enemy ship is badly damaged in the attack, unprepared for quantum torpedoes.
The captain of the vessel refuses to drop his shields to allow them to be saved from the core which is going critical and sends out subspace message to persons unknown, and warning Janeway this will not go unpunished. The vessel blows.
The episode ends with Janeway being informed of casualties, badly damaged systems -- some needing several days to repair, and some things might not be able to be repaired without resources not readily available onboard. And then there's the matter of no chief engineer.
Voyager limps threw space on a directional heading toward home, unable to go to warp with certain repairs being needed that have to shutdown the warp systems.
And so concludes episode one.
Episode two opens with Voyager still in bad shape. Funeral services are briefly held (no time for longer ones -- got to get the hell out of that space before others comes).
Then there is the moral question of what to do with Chacotay and Torres. They are 50 or more years from home even at high warp -- can't leave them in the brig forever. Extra hands are needed. But Torres deeply distrusts everybody but Chacotay and unlike Voyager as it aired, Chacotay is edgy and not amiable and probably not to be trusted.
Janeway learns Torres served as an assistant chief engineer on a Romulan warbird and makes the questionable decision to have her serve as chief engineer until somebody else can be appointed, since a full crew wasn't actually picked up yet (they weren't arriving until Tuesday...). She utterly refuses but after telling Torres the situation and that it is either life or death, so agrees, only as far as getting things up and running; but it comes with a price -- she has to be given access to key systems and knowledge no Romulan would ever be given.
Now there is a problem with no second-in-command. There are at least two people more qualified for the position than Chacotay, but with security staff at a low and needed elsewhere, Janeway takes it upon herself to keep an eye on Chacotay and appoints him temporary commander.
Red alert, unknown vessel approaching. Voyager is hailed by a clunky rather disastrous-looking ship.
Communications are opened but are slow as the universal translator picks up the language. As luck would have it, it is a trading vessel that detected Voyager and found they might be in need and proposes bartering.
They soon learn they are on the edges of a militarized area of space with a warring race and are thankful almost out.
Janeway barters for certain things at the advice of Engineering and for any information on the layout of space. Chacotay suggests, having haggled with Pakleds and Ferengi before, he should handle it. When the trader finds out Voyager has a technology they've never seen the like of -- replicators -- a secret subspace message is send out to pary(ies) unknown.
Unlike the original series, the doctor is not killed off. We'll save him, get to know him and love him, then a year or two later kill him off, leaving the EMH in charge, making a hell of an extra wallop on the crew.
We get to start knowing the crew and seeing their interactions and the interactions with Torres and Chacotay. We'll probably have to amend her name to make it more Romulan sounding.
Things seem better, many damages are fixed and the crew more calmed, so Janeway decides to go to warp and hold off some repairs until they have exited the danger zone.
The episode ends with the trading vessel captain receiving a subspace communication from a dangerous looking being and telling him what Voyager has. This is the opposing race in the battle, that is loosing and needs an edge; replicators and quantum torpedoes will do it. Now Voyager is being hunted by a small contingent of war vessels.
How about that for two episodes?
Betrayals, heartbreak, death, constant setbacks and beating downs, attacks, and a band of crew that come together and are forced to rely on each other, whether they like it or not, for the rest are their lives.
The Borg will be in it later but they will be more like TNG Borg (ignoring First Contact). The Ferengi vessel from that TNG episode that got swallowed and sent to the delta quadrant, will appear -- maybe even leave one of them as an added crew member.
And we'll even pick up Neelix later. He'll be rescued from a slave ship.
Episode 3
Dramatic tense music (Dennis McCarthy -- darn right I'd keep him).
Voyager goes by steadily in high warp, leaving a trail of dry plasma behind it like a stream from a fired missile.
Voiceover from Janeway, for a captain's log. Voyager has been attacked by five enemy vessels and a decision was made to run for it, completely outgunned. Thankfully Voyager has a comparable warp system and the enemy has not overtaken, but warp is failing and there is not enough power to keep going lest Voyager has to stop and power down to recharge.
Torres informs the captain they'll have to drop out of warp now or risk further damage.
Chacotay suggests dumping more dry plasma and firing phasers to ignite it in the face of the enemies and head for the nebula within impulse engine distance. If it doesn't work, they will be unable to jump back to warp until they can replicate more dry plasma or attain more and draining power resources for enough plasma will make them vulnerable.
Voyager drops out of warp, dumps the dry plasma and as the enemy vessels drop out and pass through it, unaware of their mistake, the plasmas is ignited, lighting up their shields in a fiery glimmer which then takes the shields out and damages the vessels. Voyager limps into the nebula at full impulse.
An emergency meting is held for suggestions from the senior staff. The decision is made to repair the minor damages and stop the venting and limp out the cloud at full impulse; the longer they remain, the more enemy vessels could show up. There's no time.
Torres pulls aside Chacotay after the meeting and suggests Voyager has had it. Steal a shuttle, and barter technology to safety, let Janeway and crew die, including Tuvok, suggesting maybe even murder him before they leave. Chacotay agrees, but there isn't enough time to get Tuvok. As soon as they are clear of the nebula and sensors function properly, they'll make a run for it.
Repairs are completed and Voyager limps out the nebula and goes to full impulse. Janeway realizes she's lost track of Chacotay and pages him over the comm.
Red alert. Enemy vessel closing. One of the perusing vessels was not damaged badly enough to be set adrift and is perusing them at impulse.
Paris dodges photon torpedos and what phasers he can, still getting the shields hit. Tuvok fires back.
The enemy vessels closes.
Torres and Chacotay exchange phaser fire with a guard posted at the shuttle bay entrance. The ship shakes from a bad hit and when the doors slide open, they both have to grab the sides as aft shields are failed and the shuttle bay doors were hit and space has sucked the pressure out, picking up and officer and sucking him out the tear in the door. An emergency close is ordered and as the door closes, they pull out. That's now out of the question.
The enemy vessel orders them to surrender of the next shot will be across the Bridge.
Janeway hesitantly asks aloud of the ship should be put on self destruct. Tuvok informs them another vessel is closing from in front. The enemy vessel from behind makes an about face and the new vessel fires out it repeatedly until it finally blows. Tuvok then states there has been phaser fire outside the shuttle bay, with Torres and Chacotay's comm badge signatures detected. A site-to-site transport is ordered for both of them to the Brig.
The new vessel hails them. The commander of the vessel informs them they are a civilian self-patrol vessel and that Voyager has exited enemy space to the other side at war. The commander seeks out and helps other vessels in distress along the vast border while not strictly a war ship.
After asking, Janeway is informed they can be of assistance with dry plasma, just follow them to a small outpost station. Voyager limps along, barely maintaining full impulse.
Janeway, "Tuvok, you have the Bridge. I'll be in the Brig..."
Janeway now has a problem -- she's back where she started with Torres and Chacotay and now short a chief Engineer and first officer.
Very serious words are exchanged and she leaves them there.
In her quarters she sits down, low luminosity, and cups her face, rubbing her hands threw her hair and lowering her head. Now what?
And that's all I wrote.
Hum, interesting idea -- what to redo.
Well, first off, we dump the stupid Caretaker plot and we make it far, far more dramatic.
Instead of being dragged over there, say Voyager was perusing the Marquis into an unstable area of space. Say they were ambushed by several Marquis vessels and a battle insures where we get to see what Voyager has to offer.
Shields fluctuate and terrorists get onboard, kidnapping an officer (how about Harry? He sees like a guy that gets kidnapped often) and beaming out.
The chief engineer is killed during the boarding.
Like TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise", there's a fierce folly of photon (and quantum) torpedoes and a violent rift opens, swallowing Voyager and one of the Marquis ships.
The journey is harsh and both ships are spit out the other side damaged. Voyager's shields fail, the rift closes, and Paris informs Janeway the enemy vessel's core is going critical. She orders an immediate beam out. They get them and the Marquis ship blows, leaving Voyager without shields and the debris impacts the ship, causing more damage.
There's some struggles and stand offs (I'll leave that open here) and we get Chacotay, Tuvok (still under cover -- I'll keep that plot point) and Torres (only Torres is not Klingon, she's Romulan, adding greatly to the tense situation on the ship with her build-in distrust of Starfleet and humans).
They are put in the brig, except Tuvok, which enrages Chacotay when he finds out the double cross.
Meanwhile back on the Bridge, Janeway has found out not only are they badly damaged, but they are several lights years from the alpha quadrant (maybe not 70, but 50, making it more achievable but also still keeping it far off).
Immediate repairs are ordered. Just as shields have been regained, they are attacked by an unidentified vessel. People are injured, the doctor has to bring the Emergency Medical Hologram online to help, and the enemy ship is badly damaged in the attack, unprepared for quantum torpedoes.
The captain of the vessel refuses to drop his shields to allow them to be saved from the core which is going critical and sends out subspace message to persons unknown, and warning Janeway this will not go unpunished. The vessel blows.
The episode ends with Janeway being informed of casualties, badly damaged systems -- some needing several days to repair, and some things might not be able to be repaired without resources not readily available onboard. And then there's the matter of no chief engineer.
Voyager limps threw space on a directional heading toward home, unable to go to warp with certain repairs being needed that have to shutdown the warp systems.
And so concludes episode one.
Episode two opens with Voyager still in bad shape. Funeral services are briefly held (no time for longer ones -- got to get the hell out of that space before others comes).
Then there is the moral question of what to do with Chacotay and Torres. They are 50 or more years from home even at high warp -- can't leave them in the brig forever. Extra hands are needed. But Torres deeply distrusts everybody but Chacotay and unlike Voyager as it aired, Chacotay is edgy and not amiable and probably not to be trusted.
Janeway learns Torres served as an assistant chief engineer on a Romulan warbird and makes the questionable decision to have her serve as chief engineer until somebody else can be appointed, since a full crew wasn't actually picked up yet (they weren't arriving until Tuesday...). She utterly refuses but after telling Torres the situation and that it is either life or death, so agrees, only as far as getting things up and running; but it comes with a price -- she has to be given access to key systems and knowledge no Romulan would ever be given.
Now there is a problem with no second-in-command. There are at least two people more qualified for the position than Chacotay, but with security staff at a low and needed elsewhere, Janeway takes it upon herself to keep an eye on Chacotay and appoints him temporary commander.
Red alert, unknown vessel approaching. Voyager is hailed by a clunky rather disastrous-looking ship.
Communications are opened but are slow as the universal translator picks up the language. As luck would have it, it is a trading vessel that detected Voyager and found they might be in need and proposes bartering.
They soon learn they are on the edges of a militarized area of space with a warring race and are thankful almost out.
Janeway barters for certain things at the advice of Engineering and for any information on the layout of space. Chacotay suggests, having haggled with Pakleds and Ferengi before, he should handle it. When the trader finds out Voyager has a technology they've never seen the like of -- replicators -- a secret subspace message is send out to pary(ies) unknown.
Unlike the original series, the doctor is not killed off. We'll save him, get to know him and love him, then a year or two later kill him off, leaving the EMH in charge, making a hell of an extra wallop on the crew.
We get to start knowing the crew and seeing their interactions and the interactions with Torres and Chacotay. We'll probably have to amend her name to make it more Romulan sounding.
Things seem better, many damages are fixed and the crew more calmed, so Janeway decides to go to warp and hold off some repairs until they have exited the danger zone.
The episode ends with the trading vessel captain receiving a subspace communication from a dangerous looking being and telling him what Voyager has. This is the opposing race in the battle, that is loosing and needs an edge; replicators and quantum torpedoes will do it. Now Voyager is being hunted by a small contingent of war vessels.
How about that for two episodes?
Betrayals, heartbreak, death, constant setbacks and beating downs, attacks, and a band of crew that come together and are forced to rely on each other, whether they like it or not, for the rest are their lives.
The Borg will be in it later but they will be more like TNG Borg (ignoring First Contact). The Ferengi vessel from that TNG episode that got swallowed and sent to the delta quadrant, will appear -- maybe even leave one of them as an added crew member.
And we'll even pick up Neelix later. He'll be rescued from a slave ship.
Episode 3
Dramatic tense music (Dennis McCarthy -- darn right I'd keep him).
Voyager goes by steadily in high warp, leaving a trail of dry plasma behind it like a stream from a fired missile.
Voiceover from Janeway, for a captain's log. Voyager has been attacked by five enemy vessels and a decision was made to run for it, completely outgunned. Thankfully Voyager has a comparable warp system and the enemy has not overtaken, but warp is failing and there is not enough power to keep going lest Voyager has to stop and power down to recharge.
Torres informs the captain they'll have to drop out of warp now or risk further damage.
Chacotay suggests dumping more dry plasma and firing phasers to ignite it in the face of the enemies and head for the nebula within impulse engine distance. If it doesn't work, they will be unable to jump back to warp until they can replicate more dry plasma or attain more and draining power resources for enough plasma will make them vulnerable.
Voyager drops out of warp, dumps the dry plasma and as the enemy vessels drop out and pass through it, unaware of their mistake, the plasmas is ignited, lighting up their shields in a fiery glimmer which then takes the shields out and damages the vessels. Voyager limps into the nebula at full impulse.
An emergency meting is held for suggestions from the senior staff. The decision is made to repair the minor damages and stop the venting and limp out the cloud at full impulse; the longer they remain, the more enemy vessels could show up. There's no time.
Torres pulls aside Chacotay after the meeting and suggests Voyager has had it. Steal a shuttle, and barter technology to safety, let Janeway and crew die, including Tuvok, suggesting maybe even murder him before they leave. Chacotay agrees, but there isn't enough time to get Tuvok. As soon as they are clear of the nebula and sensors function properly, they'll make a run for it.
Repairs are completed and Voyager limps out the nebula and goes to full impulse. Janeway realizes she's lost track of Chacotay and pages him over the comm.
Red alert. Enemy vessel closing. One of the perusing vessels was not damaged badly enough to be set adrift and is perusing them at impulse.
Paris dodges photon torpedos and what phasers he can, still getting the shields hit. Tuvok fires back.
The enemy vessels closes.
Torres and Chacotay exchange phaser fire with a guard posted at the shuttle bay entrance. The ship shakes from a bad hit and when the doors slide open, they both have to grab the sides as aft shields are failed and the shuttle bay doors were hit and space has sucked the pressure out, picking up and officer and sucking him out the tear in the door. An emergency close is ordered and as the door closes, they pull out. That's now out of the question.
The enemy vessel orders them to surrender of the next shot will be across the Bridge.
Janeway hesitantly asks aloud of the ship should be put on self destruct. Tuvok informs them another vessel is closing from in front. The enemy vessel from behind makes an about face and the new vessel fires out it repeatedly until it finally blows. Tuvok then states there has been phaser fire outside the shuttle bay, with Torres and Chacotay's comm badge signatures detected. A site-to-site transport is ordered for both of them to the Brig.
The new vessel hails them. The commander of the vessel informs them they are a civilian self-patrol vessel and that Voyager has exited enemy space to the other side at war. The commander seeks out and helps other vessels in distress along the vast border while not strictly a war ship.
After asking, Janeway is informed they can be of assistance with dry plasma, just follow them to a small outpost station. Voyager limps along, barely maintaining full impulse.
Janeway, "Tuvok, you have the Bridge. I'll be in the Brig..."
Janeway now has a problem -- she's back where she started with Torres and Chacotay and now short a chief Engineer and first officer.
Very serious words are exchanged and she leaves them there.
In her quarters she sits down, low luminosity, and cups her face, rubbing her hands threw her hair and lowering her head. Now what?
And that's all I wrote.
And a gruesome fate it is too...
It's a perfectly cromulent word.
Well, I do feel Janeway was written inconsistently, so there is that.
You can't just stop!
Episode 4
Voyager arrives at the small trading post where Janeway barters for dry plasma and other good needed for various repairs. The haggling is surprisingly easy, she finds.
They are given a rudimentary map of the general system, but for some reason the traders aren't keen on sharing a full more detailed map...
They are told it's best to stay at a general mid-warp range and make occasional stops, so as not to arise suspensions of tactical long-range sensor arrays. And they are warned that if they keep at their trajectory, they will encounter eventually Borg space. Also, there is rumored to be a "space catapult" some distance away, though it would take a year or two to get to.
Janeway and Tuvok have a serious discussion on what to do about Torres (anybody got a good Romulan name for her?) and Chacotay. Tuvok suggests Torres stands the best chance at assimilating into the crew, though it will be rocky at best. Chacotay, Tuvok suggests, cannot be trusted.
"Then what do we do with him? Leave him in the brig for the remainder of our journey?"
While at the station, the doctor tends to aliens in horrible shape. He is warned to stop, lest he make enemies with the Hirogen Slave Consortium which after a hundred years, has stretched out even as far as the trading base. The Hirogen are brutal and enslave worlds they annex, selling and trading the inhabitants like goods and animals; and trading with other slave-holding races as part of the Consortium. Lucky for the doctor, the Hirogen have departed ahead of their arrival, though an overseer of the "Goods" might be lurking around.
Tom and Harry get into trouble aboard the trading post and Janeway winds up having to bail them out. They're good Starfleet officers, but bad influenced on themselves.
In the inter rim, Janeway decides to appoint as her second-in-command -- sine other senior officers are tied up elsewhere, a lieutenant by the name of Michael Jonas, who seems more than a little pleased to get the assignment...
After a montage of repairs which spans a few days, Voyager is finally in enough shape to warp out of there.
The trading station commander watches Voyager warped away, with a temporary escort by the civilian self-patrol vessel. He walks over to a control panel and opens up a subspace communication, "They bought it..."
Voyager arrives at the small trading post where Janeway barters for dry plasma and other good needed for various repairs. The haggling is surprisingly easy, she finds.
They are given a rudimentary map of the general system, but for some reason the traders aren't keen on sharing a full more detailed map...
They are told it's best to stay at a general mid-warp range and make occasional stops, so as not to arise suspensions of tactical long-range sensor arrays. And they are warned that if they keep at their trajectory, they will encounter eventually Borg space. Also, there is rumored to be a "space catapult" some distance away, though it would take a year or two to get to.
Janeway and Tuvok have a serious discussion on what to do about Torres (anybody got a good Romulan name for her?) and Chacotay. Tuvok suggests Torres stands the best chance at assimilating into the crew, though it will be rocky at best. Chacotay, Tuvok suggests, cannot be trusted.
"Then what do we do with him? Leave him in the brig for the remainder of our journey?"
While at the station, the doctor tends to aliens in horrible shape. He is warned to stop, lest he make enemies with the Hirogen Slave Consortium which after a hundred years, has stretched out even as far as the trading base. The Hirogen are brutal and enslave worlds they annex, selling and trading the inhabitants like goods and animals; and trading with other slave-holding races as part of the Consortium. Lucky for the doctor, the Hirogen have departed ahead of their arrival, though an overseer of the "Goods" might be lurking around.
Tom and Harry get into trouble aboard the trading post and Janeway winds up having to bail them out. They're good Starfleet officers, but bad influenced on themselves.
In the inter rim, Janeway decides to appoint as her second-in-command -- sine other senior officers are tied up elsewhere, a lieutenant by the name of Michael Jonas, who seems more than a little pleased to get the assignment...
After a montage of repairs which spans a few days, Voyager is finally in enough shape to warp out of there.
The trading station commander watches Voyager warped away, with a temporary escort by the civilian self-patrol vessel. He walks over to a control panel and opens up a subspace communication, "They bought it..."
Right. In the first two seasons she's shown to be consistently and extremely staunch about not trading tech with other species, she says she will destroy Voyager before she ever hands a piece of technology to the Kazon. Then two seasons later she's giving tech to the Hirogen as a bargain.
Nothing wrong with the latter, but I feel like we missed some major breakthrough with her willing to take a less rigid stance on the prime directive.
Scorpion, perhaps? After employing tech vital to survival of the Borg (and hence hugely influencing the future of the quadrant), she may have become less strict in such matters ...
