Wow O_O
Well, there's a first time for everything. This is my first time hearing that the EMH is the worst character in VOY, ahead of Neelix, Harry Kim, Kes, Chakotay, or Seska.
If you could rewrite Voyager
- Thread starter Trekboy1993
- Start date
Well, there's a first time for everything. This is my first time hearing that the EMH is the worst character in VOY, ahead of Neelix, Harry Kim, Kes, Chakotay, or Seska.
Bry_Sinclair wouldn't have to hate the character to think they were over-used, over-exposed.
Ensemble cast shows are (apparently) difficult to write and produce, in spite of this I think (imho) that Voyager would have been more enjoyable as such a show. Ensemble as oppose to focusing on three of the character, with the other character being relegated to support roles.
I agree.
Example for myself would be my feelings about too much Seven airtime. I wish she would have dropped into the background a bit, if not figured out how to interact with you know...the ensemble! But the writers couldn't seem to get the swing of it.
Janeway and EMH were her only mentors? There are other crew members. Chakotay was in charge of personnel. Would have made more sense what drew them together if we saw them actually interacting instead of us having to hunt down the subtly like Where's Waldo?
Well, even the EMH didn't see anything because when she talked about having the emotional muzzle removed, he took it as a hint to make the moves on her.. Talk about not having a clue!
I was thinking (reading a reply in Prax' thread) perhaps quality over quantity was in order?
Making those shorter appearance possibly worth it if they felt like they were actually there and not noise to fill a scene? I'm not sure how to articulate this, but I feel a little resentment when the B plot is so bad it need not be said. If it doesn't enhance or compliment the A plot, why is it there? It feels disjointed somehow. And I don't mean, "Meanwhile back on Voyger..." that's not so bad, but when they just do it for the sake of saying they included people but it was meaningless airtime. So thick you could cut it with a knife.
How many times did we see Beltran's character really do nothing but stood there like it was always a mandatory meeting somewhere? How would that perception change if perhaps Beltran didn't stand there looking bored? I don't think he knows how to act still. If that makes sense.
If the B plot takes away from a solid A, just ditch the B in some cases. I am aware other series did this. Not picking on VOY exclusively.
Mulgrew made a very strong opinion in an interview. **Edit*** found the transcript on Trekcore:
KATE WILL NTO BE SORRY TO LEAVE HOLLYWOOD WHEN VOYAGER WRAPS � WHAT ANNOYS HER MOST ARE TV ACTORS WHO COMPLAIN THAT BAD WRITING HOLDS THEM BACK FROM GIVING A GOOD PERFORMANCE.
[Voyager cast celebrating the 100th episode]
[Janeway walking through a bustling engineering]
Mulgrew: I don't buy that for one minute.
Interviewer: No
Mulgrew: That's a lazy actor's response. 'They didn't let me act'. Really? Go get a job in a cereal commercial. I just don't have any time for it. Of course, you can find every opportunity... Sit in this seat and say nothing. Do it! Be it! (turns towards second officer's chair) Lift it up! We're all trained here and we're, you know, compensated *very* nicely.
In her eye, lazy actors save their acting for when it is the best. Like how we hold out on living until things improve the way we think they ought to.
How would it shift our view if they took her advice? *shrugs*
Making those shorter appearance possibly worth it if they felt like they were actually there and not noise to fill a scene? I'm not sure how to articulate this, but I feel a little resentment when the B plot is so bad it need not be said. If it doesn't enhance or compliment the A plot, why is it there? It feels disjointed somehow. And I don't mean, "Meanwhile back on Voyger..." that's not so bad, but when they just do it for the sake of saying they included people but it was meaningless airtime. So thick you could cut it with a knife.
How many times did we see Beltran's character really do nothing but stood there like it was always a mandatory meeting somewhere? How would that perception change if perhaps Beltran didn't stand there looking bored? I don't think he knows how to act still. If that makes sense.
If the B plot takes away from a solid A, just ditch the B in some cases. I am aware other series did this. Not picking on VOY exclusively.
Mulgrew made a very strong opinion in an interview. **Edit*** found the transcript on Trekcore:
KATE WILL NTO BE SORRY TO LEAVE HOLLYWOOD WHEN VOYAGER WRAPS � WHAT ANNOYS HER MOST ARE TV ACTORS WHO COMPLAIN THAT BAD WRITING HOLDS THEM BACK FROM GIVING A GOOD PERFORMANCE.
[Voyager cast celebrating the 100th episode]
[Janeway walking through a bustling engineering]
Mulgrew: I don't buy that for one minute.
Interviewer: No
Mulgrew: That's a lazy actor's response. 'They didn't let me act'. Really? Go get a job in a cereal commercial. I just don't have any time for it. Of course, you can find every opportunity... Sit in this seat and say nothing. Do it! Be it! (turns towards second officer's chair) Lift it up! We're all trained here and we're, you know, compensated *very* nicely.
In her eye, lazy actors save their acting for when it is the best. Like how we hold out on living until things improve the way we think they ought to.
How would it shift our view if they took her advice? *shrugs*
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Catarina- Imo Mulgrew is wrong here. There is a huge difference between 'lazy acting' and not being given anything to act with. Lazy acting is when you are given good material and dial it in. The latter is when you are told to sit in a chair for scene after scene, episode after episode and push buttons. Her comments sound harsh considering she was one of the 'big three,' that got lots of great stuff, yet she sits in judgement of those who got nothing.
And, if I'm correct, Beltran wasn't just advocating for himself. He mentions some of the other actors who suffered the same fate. In fact I have never heard him criticize any of his fellow voyager actors.
Also isn't Mulgrew the one who had a fit when she was no longer the show's front girl because Jeri Ryan joined the cast. Correct me if I'm wrong but didnt she treat the actress badly because of it.
Those who throw stones... geesh!
And, if I'm correct, Beltran wasn't just advocating for himself. He mentions some of the other actors who suffered the same fate. In fact I have never heard him criticize any of his fellow voyager actors.
Also isn't Mulgrew the one who had a fit when she was no longer the show's front girl because Jeri Ryan joined the cast. Correct me if I'm wrong but didnt she treat the actress badly because of it.
Those who throw stones... geesh!
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One thing i wish they (TPTB) had briefly mentioned and then for the most part dropped, was The Doctor's "photonic rights" campaign. If they were trying to draw parallels to the civil rights movement imo it didn't work.
I liked the character that Robert Beltran was building. The quiet delivery, the way he gave advice through moral and spiritual parables. When TPTB made the decision to all but eliminate Chakotay's spirituality it really reduced the character and gave him a lot less to say.
Chakotay's later story of the scorpion (in the episode Scorpion) showed what Beltran could do if given a place in the script, it was some of the best delivered dialog of that entire season.
That's basically what Denise Crosby did, and look at all the disrespect some low life fans threw at her. Some actors want more than just a regular paycheck, they want to act.
I liked the character that Robert Beltran was building. The quiet delivery, the way he gave advice through moral and spiritual parables. When TPTB made the decision to all but eliminate Chakotay's spirituality it really reduced the character and gave him a lot less to say.
Chakotay's later story of the scorpion (in the episode Scorpion) showed what Beltran could do if given a place in the script, it was some of the best delivered dialog of that entire season.
Travis Mayweather was a potential interesting character, played by a fairly good if not great young actor. What was Anthony Montgomery supposed to do when give a script in which he literally had no lines?
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The photonic rights thing, the holographic sentience emerging randomly from a simulation of a person. Didn’t like that at all.
A person, a conscious observer, that exists only in a box, and actualised by light and forcefields. What? Why bother with a mobile emitter? Just fabricate a body and call it a sentient Android.
There were contrived reasons why he couldn’t be copied, but he could be downloaded between systems.
Medical emergency? Lots of casualties, better boot up a few more EMHs.
No, I’d have done the doctor very differently.
A person, a conscious observer, that exists only in a box, and actualised by light and forcefields. What? Why bother with a mobile emitter? Just fabricate a body and call it a sentient Android.
There were contrived reasons why he couldn’t be copied, but he could be downloaded between systems.
Medical emergency? Lots of casualties, better boot up a few more EMHs.
No, I’d have done the doctor very differently.
If the holodeck emitters can materialize multiple holo-characters at the sametime, then the sickbay emitters should be able to project multiple doctors, nurses, orderlies, etc. in the rooms of sickbay.
The Doctor's holograph/physical form should be no different than the holograph/physical form of a holo-character.
The EMH medical program, and the system that materializes him in sickbay are (should be) two entirely different systems.
If multiple crewmembers can use Voyager's computer system at the same time, why can't multiple holo-medics in sickbay use the EMH medical program at the same time?
The Doctor's holograph/physical form should be no different than the holograph/physical form of a holo-character.
The EMH medical program, and the system that materializes him in sickbay are (should be) two entirely different systems.
If multiple crewmembers can use Voyager's computer system at the same time, why can't multiple holo-medics in sickbay use the EMH medical program at the same time?
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Tenacity- Interesting idea about the EMH. In Author, Author the final scene shows multiple Zimmermen mining one small cave. Begs the question why we couldn't have more doctors.
Come to think of it in Equinox we have two doctors in the same sick bay. Then our doctor deletes, not turns off, the other one (always wondered about that).
To go one step further why not turn a holodeck into an extra sickbay with a doctor during a crisis instead of tossing them in the mess hall? Hmm something to consider.
Come to think of it in Equinox we have two doctors in the same sick bay. Then our doctor deletes, not turns off, the other one (always wondered about that).
To go one step further why not turn a holodeck into an extra sickbay with a doctor during a crisis instead of tossing them in the mess hall? Hmm something to consider.
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I wanted to reply to this separately from the EMH issue so I'm doing an extra post. Hope that's ok.
Imo acting, like many professions, can either be a job or a passion or, if your lucky, both. It sounds like Beltran feels a passion for acting and was lucky enough to have a job doing it for a few years. When he and some of his fellow castmates were forced to sit on the sidelines, he spoke up.
I equate it to a painter who loves to paint and does really beautiful pieces. My aunt is like that. If I went up to her and took her paints and brushes away, gave her a paint by number kit, and told her to paint anyway she would drop me where I stand with one single look.
Imo it's no different with actors who have a passion. You hire them, give them good material for a few years, then stop and give them nothing to work with! Not surprising the most vocal would speak up.
And wasn't there was a episode where the Doctor was paired up with a holographic "Nazi doctor?" They were doing some kind of research and both were in sickbay at the same time.
I might be thinking about a different show.
You are correct Tenacity. It was in season 5 and called Nothing Human. They resurrected a cardassian exobiologist by the name of Crell Moset, who had tortured thousands of Bajorans and even infected hundreds more with the Fostossa virus to test for a cure. They recreated him to help detach an alien that was sucking the life from B'Elanna.
Actually now that you mention it, they operated in his laboratory recreated on the holodeck.
Actually now that you mention it, they operated in his laboratory recreated on the holodeck.
We don't know if Mulgrew is talking about anyone specifically, and since we weren't there, we can't throw stones either. I have however, heard in many interviews of Voyager's cast, that Mulgrew was the hardest working actor on that show, and was an inspiration to the others. If Beltran and Wang aren't taking it seriously, and showing up late, and not having their lines memorized, shame on them. They shouldn't be surprised if their roles are diminished.
I know how it is, and can sympathize. When you're at a job for years, and you develop a grudge against some manager or frequent occurence, etc, you get tunnel vision. It happens to everyone, but it's the individuals responsibility to rise above it.
From behind the scenes stuff that I've seen, and interviews, et al, if I were to list who seemed to be the most dedicated, motivated, and hardest working actors in that cast, they'd be:
Kate Mulgrew
Bob Picardo
Roxanne Dawson
Robbie McNeill
Jeri Ryan
Ethan Phillips
And coincidentally, besides maybe Phillips, the rest got the most screen time. They gave their best performance, and it shows.
That's not to say the others didn't get their share. Despite the frequent generalizations on this page, everyone in the cast had multiple episodes all seven seasons focusing on them.
I know how it is, and can sympathize. When you're at a job for years, and you develop a grudge against some manager or frequent occurence, etc, you get tunnel vision. It happens to everyone, but it's the individuals responsibility to rise above it.
From behind the scenes stuff that I've seen, and interviews, et al, if I were to list who seemed to be the most dedicated, motivated, and hardest working actors in that cast, they'd be:
Kate Mulgrew
Bob Picardo
Roxanne Dawson
Robbie McNeill
Jeri Ryan
Ethan Phillips
And coincidentally, besides maybe Phillips, the rest got the most screen time. They gave their best performance, and it shows.
That's not to say the others didn't get their share. Despite the frequent generalizations on this page, everyone in the cast had multiple episodes all seven seasons focusing on them.
Pax- in the piece quoted by Catarina it says 'she turned toward the second officer's chair'. I did some checking and most people say she was referring to Beltran. Even your rebuttal implies you believe she was referring to Beltran.
To be clear I have nothing against Mulgrew. She was the star of the show and took it seriously. She also did a bang up job of it. However in my experience there is one cardinal rule in any profession...you can complain about the boss or the company and the majority of people will give you a pass. You may lose your job but that's a price you have to be willing to pay for going public. However you don't publically complain about your fellow workers or make their life miserable. It's unprofessional imo.
I should add I am not what people would call an actor fan. I don't love any actor enough to go see their work just because they are in it. I am a fan of characters. If they are complex, diverse, and have chemistry with the rest of the cast I support them. Both Janeway and Chakotay fit within these parameters. Obviously the actors (Mulgrew/Beltran) did a great job somewhere along the line or their characters would not resonate like they do.
That's just me though. I understand others feel differently.
To be clear I have nothing against Mulgrew. She was the star of the show and took it seriously. She also did a bang up job of it. However in my experience there is one cardinal rule in any profession...you can complain about the boss or the company and the majority of people will give you a pass. You may lose your job but that's a price you have to be willing to pay for going public. However you don't publically complain about your fellow workers or make their life miserable. It's unprofessional imo.
I should add I am not what people would call an actor fan. I don't love any actor enough to go see their work just because they are in it. I am a fan of characters. If they are complex, diverse, and have chemistry with the rest of the cast I support them. Both Janeway and Chakotay fit within these parameters. Obviously the actors (Mulgrew/Beltran) did a great job somewhere along the line or their characters would not resonate like they do.
That's just me though. I understand others feel differently.
I don't know if she was talking about him. Without any context, it sounds like she's simply answering a question, that the interviewer may or may not have had Beltran in mind. That may be a common gripe among working actors in hollywood, one that she hears often, and disagrees with.
She hasn't named anyone, or specified that she's speaking in any way other then generally.
Besides, hasn't Beltran publicly said all sorts of inflammatory things about both his managers and coworkers back in the day?
She hasn't named anyone, or specified that she's speaking in any way other then generally.
Besides, hasn't Beltran publicly said all sorts of inflammatory things about both his managers and coworkers back in the day?
She did indeed. Yes. She admitted it.
I don't think she was tagging Beltran. The writer, who later admitted she drew conclusions, transcribed it that way. If I find that article I'll post it to back what I'm saying.
I agree with Prax. I believe Mulgrew was just answering the question.
I do regret posting that because I think it took the conversation off point. I was just curious about thoughts if one could sustain presence without given any lines over a long period of time or if she's right you can with a change of attitude. I believe both of you are correct to a point, Mulgrew and you Cats. I think her feelings overshot. Really? A cereal commercial? Ouch. But she is right why should everyone suffer because you choose to delay getting onto set? Not learn your lines because you don't like Sci-fi? WHy did you apply? So I get her there. But where I disagree with her is why should they sit back and just take it because they get paid very nicely? Sounds like they had some concerns where their characters were going and didn't want to be button people. There are plenty of those. A gig with your name stamped on it, you want to have an impact. Mulgrew sounds as if she blames their lack of work ethic that dug their graves. And maybe so, I wasn't there. It's speculation.
I'm glad to see things have softened with time. I've seen hours of convention videos past to present and I've seen the many layers of her personality. Since she's quite in a happy string of her life right now, Mulgrew isn't quite so testy about topics. she's more humble. Beltran watches more of what he says about his comm rads and playfully teases the truth: "Of course you loved Janeway. you had the best lines!" ( Typical but not a drop of disdain) and they did a wonderful panel in 2013.
It reminded me of some of the fresh and happier interviews before you could tell there was a shift. I felt Kate understood Janeway best before her own happiness was exchanged for inner turmoil but that's a subject for a different thread. Sorry for the now, derailment.
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Catarina- So I did my due diligence and went on the internet to see what else I could find. Like I said I'm a character person so I don't usually look for actors. If I stumble on something I'll watch but I don't actively look for this stuff. Having said that I was shocked at how funny Mulgrew and Beltran are, both apart and together. Hilarious stuff. Enjoyed myself immensely.
I could not find the actual interview with Mulgrew about lazy actors nor could I find anything where Beltran criticizes any castmates. One person (who I refuse to name) did say Beltran did not always know his lines but it was in a joke so I'm not sure how often or bad it was. Beltran does say there were some scripts he did not read but if your character has nothing to say, and that certainly applies to some episodes in the last few seasons, I can see how someone might feel it's a waste of time. I saw nothing about him being late for set. That complaint was leveled at someone else.
Beltran is very vocal about the potential he saw being wasted both for Chakotay and in the series. He also advocates for his fellow actors he feels were left behind when the 'big three' took center stage.
My overall impression was the cast was and still is very close, they respect each other, and Beltran wanted it to succeed but feared it was mired in too much Star Trek tradition. (I take this from his serious interviews, not his joking around). To me this is not someone who hates Star Trek or SF in general but rather sees a lot of potential being tossed aside for the 'safe' approach. Many people on this thread seem to agree. Tjmo
I could not find the actual interview with Mulgrew about lazy actors nor could I find anything where Beltran criticizes any castmates. One person (who I refuse to name) did say Beltran did not always know his lines but it was in a joke so I'm not sure how often or bad it was. Beltran does say there were some scripts he did not read but if your character has nothing to say, and that certainly applies to some episodes in the last few seasons, I can see how someone might feel it's a waste of time. I saw nothing about him being late for set. That complaint was leveled at someone else.
Beltran is very vocal about the potential he saw being wasted both for Chakotay and in the series. He also advocates for his fellow actors he feels were left behind when the 'big three' took center stage.
My overall impression was the cast was and still is very close, they respect each other, and Beltran wanted it to succeed but feared it was mired in too much Star Trek tradition. (I take this from his serious interviews, not his joking around). To me this is not someone who hates Star Trek or SF in general but rather sees a lot of potential being tossed aside for the 'safe' approach. Many people on this thread seem to agree. Tjmo
