If you could rewrite Voyager

[Guy Gardener]

I always beleived that the first reason the Romulans attacked (I've seen all of Enterprise.) Earth was because it was a defacto Vulcan colony, you know like how America attacked china and Russia through Vietnam and Korea and all those other little countries last century who thought they made a powerful ally with communism only to find that you don't make a billion red friends without making a few enemies.

 

[DarKush]

Anwar,

Not debating your description of the Romulans. I think you bought up some interesting scenarios, potential scenarios that would've been cool to see. However, it could also apply to the Cardassians, though the Romulans do have a longer history as antagonists.

I would've loved to see the Berman era, in particular, do more with the Romulans. But within the context of Voyager and the focus on the Maquis, the Cardassians would've made better heavies.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Romulan make up would have cost too much.

Constantly having Romulan extras wandering around in the background?

We would have lost something else.

Though it would have been magnificent to see a second generation crew of mostly Human Romulan hybrids and Tuvok show up in Earth Space in one of those future episodes where everything gets reset.

 

[Anwar]

I just think the Cardies got enough screentime as is, and the Rommies were due some.

I mean, just change it so that VOY was assigned to finding out what happened to missing ships in the Neutral Zone instead of the Badlands and BAM! They and a Romulan ship get stuck in the DQ by the Caretaker.

Ad after seeing all the various aliens seen in DS9, I can't see how Romulan makeup would cost so much. It's a lot of pointed ears people!

 

[Guy Gardener]

They had X number of dollars with which they made each episode of Voyager. They used every last red cent. The cost of 10 to 15 Romulan Xtras getting into makeup every day is Y. X + Y = Z. To drop the costs of each show from Z all the way back down to X, they would have to find some else which consistently costs Y every week which they can cut from the budget.

Which probably brings us back to booting either Kes or Harry.

It's a finite and closed system.

 

[Anwar]

Just reduce Harry, Kes, Neelix and Torres from the central cast to recurring character status. That should free up some cash if they aren't around all the time.

And have there be fewer space battles. That'll cut back on the FX budget.

DS9 got away with more fights and more people in makeup than VOY did and Cardassian/Ferengi/Founder/Vorta/Jem'Hadar/Klingon makeup is WAY more complex, I don't think VOY DID regularly use their budget up.

 

[Alex1939]

I'm a "hater", but I admit there are a season's worth of episodes of Voyager that I think are great.

I loved the premise, so from there...

1) More effort on character. I like the idea of only 5 or so main characters, with many more minor recurring characters.

2) Noticeable damage of ship and more negotiation for supplies. The argument that these would be "boring" is simply incorrect. Enterprise "Dead Stop" perfect example. I didn't like the "invincible Voyager".

3) Less Borg, No Queen, and more similar to Best of Both Worlds. A less is more scenario.

4) Less technobabble and a lot less technobabble saves the day.

5) More exotic worlds and alien species and better developed as well. Less TNG forehead aliens of the week.

6) Little to no Time Travel.

7) More maquis tension. It shouldn't complete overwhelm the show, but there needed to be more.

8) More story, less action. A little more of the bizarre and a few less ship and phaser fights. Not really a great example, but I loved "Workforce". The concept is what made the episode great to me.

9) I understand the financial reasons, but it would be a lot cooler if Tom Paris was the guy from the TNG episode.

10) No Neelix or Harry Kim.



Additional) I would consider at least a couple dynamic shifts in the show, similar to NuBSG.

example) What if the Voyager was destroyed, and the surviving crew lived on a planet amongst an allied alien species for half a season. What if they regain or acquire a new ship, and dub it "Voyager-A" or whatever.

example) A final season or more where they are back in the Alpha Quadrant.



Loved the premise, wanted more serialization and less episodic storytelling. Should have broke the Star Trek formula.

 

[Anwar]

3) Less Borg, No Queen, and more similar to Best of Both Worlds. A less is more scenario.

It just isn't possible to tell a story like this when the good guys are just one insignificant ship. There's nothing at stake, no one important to protect.

5) More exotic worlds and alien species and better developed as well. Less TNG forehead aliens of the week.

You can't create aliens as complex as the Klingons, Romulans or Cardassians in one episode.

10) No Neelix or Harry Kim.

Kim just needed to be a recurring background character, not a central. And Neelix was okay when they gave him a spotlight episode, they just figured that there was little reason in maintaining that depth the rest of the time.

Additional) I would consider at least a couple dynamic shifts in the show, similar to NuBSG.

All of NuBSG's major changes ended up "Reset" one way or another. Adama always ended up back in charge and Roslin always ended up back as President. A new Battlestar arrives? It gets destroyed. A new world found to live on? It ends up abandoned and them back as a ragtag fleet.

Loved the premise, wanted more serialization and less episodic storytelling.

The premise needed work, frankly. It wasn't thought out well enough.

And serialization wasn't the answer, the real problem was that no one could find out what kind of show they wanted to tell and how to make the show distinct. If they knew what kind of stories VOY was supposed to tell, then those style of episodes could still be told as standalones.

 

[Alex1939]

It just isn't possible to tell a story like this when the good guys are just one insignificant ship. There's nothing at stake, no one important to protect.

What I meant is the borg should've been portrayed more in line with "best of both worlds".

I did not like the use of the Queen. And I didn't like them as an overwhelming threat. I would've preferred less Voyager encounters with the Borg and less in their territory.

You can't create aliens as complex as the Klingons, Romulans or Cardassians in one episode.

It only took 2 and half hours to create decent complexity for the Navi in Avatar. And the "prawns" in District 9.

If that meant Voyager would have arcs similar to Enterprise season 4, I think it would've been worth it. I just didn't find many of the alien races in Voyager particularly interesting or "fresh".

All of NuBSG's major changes ended up "Reset" one way or another. Adama always ended up back in charge and Roslin always ended up back as President. A new Battlestar arrives? It gets destroyed. A new world found to live on? It ends up abandoned and them back as a ragtag fleet.

That's a good point.

The New Caprica arc really gave the actors a chance to portray the characters under a different setting and through a lot of change. It lasted 3 episodes yet the character changes lasted throughout most of the season.

Voyager needed a little more character continuity. Things were too easily forgotten, forgiven, etc.

 

[Anwar]

What I meant is the borg should've been portrayed more in line with "best of both worlds".

That's what I mean, you really CAN'T portray the Borg that way when you're just one insignificant ship. In BOBW civilization was on the line.

I would've preferred less Voyager encounters with the Borg and less in their territory.

VOY should've just had the 8472 and Borg be equals and then have them kill each other, eliminating both threats from the Trekverse permanently. The Borg were pretty much done as an enemy after BOBW anyways.

It only took 2 and half hours to create decent complexity for the Navi in Avatar. And the "prawns" in District 9.

The Navi aren't that complex, they're just space Native Americans. And the Prawns were never well-developed either, just Christopher and his son as intelligent Prawns. The movie was deliberately ambiguous enough on the rest of the Prawns that the viewers are still debating what the story is with them.

If that meant Voyager would have arcs similar to Enterprise season 4, I think it would've been worth it. I just didn't find many of the alien races in Voyager particularly interesting or "fresh".

The Vidiians, Hirogen, Krenim and even the Ocampa were deeper than a 2-D Galactic Conqueror like the Dominion or the Breen. All those had to go for them were good actors in certain roles like Weyoun and the Female Founder.

It lasted 3 episodes yet the character changes lasted throughout most of the season.

Not particularly. Tigh went from a Drunk with a slutty wife to a Drunk with an eyepatch, Starbuck was the same semi-deranged mess she always way, Lee's temporary obesity was never mentioned again, and Adama was the same staunch military man as eve.

Even the consequences, like the Death Squad killing the Collaborators, weren't followed up on since Gaeta didn't seem to care when he ran into any of them later on.

Voyager needed a little more character continuity. Things were too easily forgotten, forgiven, etc.

They needed a smaller cast to focus better on, and for some characters to just be re-invented (Chakotay, Torres, Kim) or tweaked a teeny bit (the rest).

 

[Supernuke]

I would have liked to see no Borg at all in this show. It ruined their effect completely for me. Also I would have had the crew get home after season six and have season seven follow the crew's readjustment to life in the alpha quadrant.

 

[Anwar]

Since I think the Borg were done as an enemy after BOBW, I'd have just used the VOY series to destroy all the Borg. Have them find some ancient superweapon in the DQ that hunts down and destroys all Borg once activated, have the Female Caretaker turn out to be their creator and she simply deactivates them when she's bored with them, or have them and the 8472 annihilate each other. Just have the balls to get rid of them.

 

[Lord Manitou]

rewrite Voyager

More plots that are closer to being possible, or being creditable, or being feasable or workable.

Here are some episodes that I consider failures.
Barge of the Dead- B'Elanna is moving off to the Klingon World - in her sleep?
Blink of an Eye- An entire planet that has a different physics relating to time. Really- a different physics?
Fury- Kes returns reeking havoc with everything and everyone she sees. Why pick on Kes? She didn't have enough hate to hurt anyone. Certainly not enough to destroy ship and crew. Wasn't she a self professed lover of nature and life?
Why changes in plots in an episode following must be so exponential?

 

[OldManDax]

Being that the Delta Quad was their home of origin, I think the Borg should have been explored as a kind of darj parallel to the MU, with some what if type scenarios: "What if the Borg had begun to present themselves in their dealings withother species, as sort of benevolent (yet obviously totalitarian overseers, only interested in the enhancement of a species - their equivalent of evolution? What if, for instance, some species had willingly agreed to accept Borg technology, enhancement, reinforcement, in exchange for help with their societies? What if Voyager encountered these species post-assimilation, but that assimilation played more like an upgrading, since the species still kept aspects of their former culture - a kind of parallel to benevolent totalitarianism?

Would have been cool.

 

[OldManDax]

Also, had the Unimatrix Zero "arc" been done correctly, we could have gotten a nice story about how VOY helps the DQ begin the process of bringing down the Borg...

 

[T'Girl]

Since I think the Borg were done as an enemy after BOBW, I'd have just used the VOY series to destroy all the Borg.

Instead of destroying all the Borg, it would have been more in keeping with the theme of Star Trek, and the philosophy of the Federation to "free" all the Borg drones. Seven was an exception, the average Borg was a slave at best and a life long rape victim at worst.

Have Voyager figure out a way to simultaneously cut them all lose from the collective.

 

[Anwar]

The audience was enraged that any damage could be done to the Borg at all, by anybody. They even hated how the 8472 could beat them in straight up combat despite being massively powerful aliens from another dimension.

Nothing done by VOY to the Borg would be pleasing to the audience. There is no "correct" way of doing Unimatrix Zero or causing the downfall of the Borg anyone would've liked.

You're free to prove how I'm wrong with actual examples beyond "You're wrong, it can be done."

 

[BillJ]

The audience was enraged that any damage could be done to the Borg at all...

What audience are you talking about? The only audience rage I ever encountered regarding the Borg came from their extreme overuse on Voyager.

 

[Guy Gardener]

No, there's rage, I have it. Express it a lot.

Voyager should have been ignored because it was insignificant, not powered up into some almighty colossus which not even 17 cubes dare stand a chance against... And then they're bollocksed off by DQ Pakleds the following week.

A fleet of dozens to hundreds of ships attacked the queens cube in First contact for over nine hours.

Voyager on the other hand is taking out fleets in one shot.

DEfanging.

8472 vs the borg, I got that. I understood it.

But a federation rowboat against the totality of Borg Space acting like they're the kin... Queen of the Sandbox? I'd rather believe that one Amazon Princess held off the entire Persian army... Okay Wonder Woman sure, but Xena no.

 

[Anwar]

The audience was enraged that any damage could be done to the Borg at all...

What audience are you talking about? The only audience rage I ever encountered regarding the Borg came from their extreme overuse on Voyager.

The audience was PO'ed that VOY could destroy a weakling Probe ship in "Dark Frontier", they were PO'ed that the 8472 aliens could defeat the Borg (because they had this overblown image of the Borg as the invincible foe of all life), They were PO'ed that VOY had a significant impact on the 8472/Borg conflict, they were PO'ed that VOY managed to sneak into the Unimatrix and escape without engaging a Borg vessel, they were PO'ed that VOY managed to aid the Borg Rebels at all, they were PO'ed at the existence of the Borg Cooperative.

Of course, TNG had them destroy a Borg Cruiser in "Descent" but no one cared there. They also had them destroy a Borg Cube with a "weak spot" even though they had said before that a Cube doesn't have any weak spots.

But again, no one cared there.

They were also PO'ed that VOY had any significant impact on the DQ at all (a possible cure for the Phage, destroying the Krenim Timeship, using the Hirogen Array, etc). But that doesn't have to do with the Borg.