If You Could Rewrite DS9

[HugeLobes]

1) I'd scrap the concept of Sisko as the Emissary. Prophets, wormhole aliens, orbs, and Bajoran religious politics are one thing, all well and good, but instilling Sisko with an inherent destiny sacrifices what could have been a far more interesting journey, namely for Sisko to have been confronted with the problem of bridging two cultures and coming to discover in the process the value of an alien culture that he had initially rejected as founded on superstition. Making him a product of that alien culture short-circuited that journey.

I loved the prophet thing. It was just handled atrociously in the last season. There are plenty of things about DS9 that I'd rewrite, but the main thing would be having the Emissary thread and the Dominion War thread weaved together at the end.

As it is, the Dominion War ends and then Sisko is just kinda like, "Oh, shoot, I know what I need to do. I need to make sure someone falls off a ledge."

 

[Discofan]

I loved the prophet thing. It was just handled atrociously in the last season. There are plenty of things about DS9 that I'd rewrite, but the main thing would be having the Emissary thread and the Dominion War thread weaved together at the end.

As it is, the Dominion War ends and then Sisko is just kinda like, "Oh, shoot, I know what I need to do. I need to make sure someone falls off a ledge."

I didn't like the Prophet thing at all. The idea that burning a book would keep powerful aliens at bay is just stupid and it harkens back to a time when we were ignorant and ridiculously superstitious about everything and is more suited to a Harry Potter story than so-called "science" fiction.

We know it's not real science and more often than not, not even plausible science but to turn it into hocus pocus and other mumbo jumbo is just idiotic.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Like when he tells Kasidy that he doesn't want to go to Vic's because it isn't an accurate depiction of reality and then when Kasidy confirms that it is indeed NOT an accurate depiction of reality... that convinces him to give it a go!

That's the point - he gets to see what that world would have looked like if things were different. The kind of world he wished had come along sooner. It's like reading an alternate history novel.

She's basically reminded him that it's a fantasy, just like if a Ferengi reenacted some famous moment from Human history, like D-Day, and nobody noticed they weren't Human.

 

[Jonesy]

Let's have some fun and work out how we could change things about this show and make it better.

I for one think it should have been on a starship. Being on a station was limited.

1) I'd make Worf's arrival to DS9 about something else other than his complaint of the ENT-D being destroyed. I'd also completely remove his involvement in stalking Odo and Odo's way of working, and episodes relating to him butting heads in inane ways with members of the crew. They eventually got Worf right as the years went on, but I cringe at a lot of early Worf stuff in DS9.

2) Rewrite or trim out the "fat" in the finale, particularly the scene with the crew dreamily watching Vic Fontaine in the holodeck. This screentime could have been put to better use.

3) Garak becomes a fulltime castmember!

4) I think they dropped the ball with Jake. I think more attention should have been paid to Jake, or he should have been sent off the station.

5) I still have some degree of issue with The Founders wanting to take over the Alpha Quadrant simply because....they don't trust solids.

 

[plentode]

This is probably my favorite series, but I'd still change just a few things:

1. Find a way to keep Terry Farrell
2. Cut some of the Ferengi shenanigans episodes
3. The Mirror Universe is fine and all, but by the end it was a joke. I'd have left it with at "Crossover" as the rest of it didn't really go anywhere.
4. Don't make Bashir genetically enhanced... or keep it in, but the audience alone needs to know about it much sooner. It could have been a fun plot to weave through seasons with us watching Bashir's struggle to keep his talents hidden etc.
5. End the Dominion War sooner. It would have been nice to have some breathing room to see the state of affairs post-war like Bajor joining the Federation.

 

[WinterSoldier]

This is my favourite Star Trek series and there's not much I would change. I really enjoyed the premise and the way it was set out.
I would keep the original characters, and keep them in their positions. Quark and O'Brien would have less featured episodes, Quark works well as a side character and O'Brien is boring as batshit. I would have Kaiko feature instead, it would have been a cool way to look at the plant-life. There could have been evil plants taking over the station and Kaiko using her botany powers to stop them but noooooo we have to listen to her husband drone on about not trusting Cardassians, like it makes him special (I mean, I like O'Brien well enough, it's not his fault he's the least interesting one, someone has to be.)
Sisko and Jake worked well, I don't think I'd change a thing. I think Sisko was incredibly well-written, he worked as being not-a-model-officer and his backstory was intricate in a way that made him feel more real. I didn't haye Wesley Crusher from TNG, but Jake was preferable. He acted more like a regular teenager and had an amazing relationship with his father and the senior officers (where as Beverley and the others didn't with Wes.) Also, Jake was never around long enough to feel annoying.
Major Kira was brilliant, I wouldn't change a thing.
Oh, Odo, I would change the whole Odo/Kira thing, that was weird.
I think tbey could have drawn out Odo's backstory a little more, build the tension and given us more Odo-centric episodes. The mystery was revealed a little too quickly for my liking.
Jadzia Dax - I love her/him/them. I know it was the 90's and most people weren't cool with genderbending or exploration of sexual orientation but holy shit Dax is clearly a non-binary pansexual, obviously they are attracted to all genders, if Dax was written today they could have a lot more fun with it.
Also, Bashir should also have been pansexual. Whoever wrote this series was a pussy, make these god damn characters gay. Julian was clearly f**king Garrek the entire time. It doesn't make any sense for him to be a hettie in the 24th century, he'll clearly get down with fellas, ladies, androgynous aliens, he's just so gay, anyone could see that he is GAY. Am I the only one? Am I going crazy? Can someone please acknowledge that both Jadzia and Julian were fully open to any kind of relationship, it's so obvious! I'm only saying this because I have the hots for Bashir, but that doesn't invalidate my point, he likes men too.
...
...
Anyway,
I wanted to see more of Bajor. The citizens of Bajor were only ever what the writers needed them to be. They went from being peaceful, to an angry mob, to highly devout, to racist against all non-Bajorans. And it was always spoken as if their problems were global, their thoughts and feelings were global, as if they all went from being one thing to the next. It frustrated me. I think we should have seen more of Bajor and its people.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

This is my favourite Star Trek series and there's not much I would change. I really enjoyed the premise and the way it was set out.
I would keep the original characters, and keep them in their positions. Quark and O'Brien would have less featured episodes, Quark works well as a side character and O'Brien is boring as batshit. I would have Kaiko feature instead, it would have been a cool way to look at the plant-life. There could have been evil plants taking over the station and Kaiko using her botany powers to stop them but noooooo we have to listen to her husband drone on about not trusting Cardassians, like it makes him special (I mean, I like O'Brien well enough, it's not his fault he's the least interesting one, someone has to be.)
Sisko and Jake worked well, I don't think I'd change a thing. I think Sisko was incredibly well-written, he worked as being not-a-model-officer and his backstory was intricate in a way that made him feel more real. I didn't haye Wesley Crusher from TNG, but Jake was preferable. He acted more like a regular teenager and had an amazing relationship with his father and the senior officers (where as Beverley and the others didn't with Wes.) Also, Jake was never around long enough to feel annoying.
Major Kira was brilliant, I wouldn't change a thing.
Oh, Odo, I would change the whole Odo/Kira thing, that was weird.
I think tbey could have drawn out Odo's backstory a little more, build the tension and given us more Odo-centric episodes. The mystery was revealed a little too quickly for my liking.
Jadzia Dax - I love her/him/them. I know it was the 90's and most people weren't cool with genderbending or exploration of sexual orientation but holy shit Dax is clearly a non-binary pansexual, obviously they are attracted to all genders, if Dax was written today they could have a lot more fun with it.
Also, Bashir should also have been pansexual. Whoever wrote this series was a pussy, make these god damn characters gay. Julian was clearly f**king Garrek the entire time. It doesn't make any sense for him to be a hettie in the 24th century, he'll clearly get down with fellas, ladies, androgynous aliens, he's just so gay, anyone could see that he is GAY. Am I the only one? Am I going crazy? Can someone please acknowledge that both Jadzia and Julian were fully open to any kind of relationship, it's so obvious! I'm only saying this because I have the hots for Bashir, but that doesn't invalidate my point, he likes men too.
...
...
Anyway,
I wanted to see more of Bajor. The citizens of Bajor were only ever what the writers needed them to be. They went from being peaceful, to an angry mob, to highly devout, to racist against all non-Bajorans. And it was always spoken as if their problems were global, their thoughts and feelings were global, as if they all went from being one thing to the next. It frustrated me. I think we should have seen more of Bajor and its people.

There's no need to attack the writers. It was pure executive/studio cowardice that kept any of the characters from being gay. (Even, hilariously, in the episode about two girls kissing)

 

[WinterSoldier]

There's no need to attack the writers. It was pure executive/studio cowardice that kept any of the characters from being gay. (Even, hilariously, in the episode about two girls kissing)

Ah, you're right. You could see the writers trying very hard, especially with Jadzia, if permission had been granted she would have been in a same-sex relationship in a heartbeat, her wife could have rejoined her. *sigh*

 

[Discofan]

One thing I have issues with is the Founders changing their minds about not trusting the solids and being nasty plague makers and all the billions they had already killed because of ONE link with ODO!!! Maybe the "cure" included a mind control element that we were never told about... Section 31 prevailed after all.


Odo was to the founders, what Hugh was supposed to be to the Borg.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

One thing I have issues with is the Founders changing their minds about not trusting the solids and being nasty plague makers and all the billions they had already killed because of ONE link with ODO!!! Maybe the "cure" included a mind control element that we were never told about... Section 31 prevailed after all.

I don't think the show ever said they did change their minds. With the way DS9 ended, the war isn't necessarily over so much as on hiatus with the hope that it might not return. The Founders agreed to end hostilities in exchange for the cure, and they're presumably keeping their word for now, but nothing is stopping them from trying again later. That's why Odo has to go back to the link on a more permanent basis - not just give them the cure and leave, but stick around and do his best to really change their minds with his experiences. If he succeeds, the war is over for real. If not, they'll be back, sooner or later.

 

[Discofan]

I don't think the show ever said they did change their minds. With the way DS9 ended, the war isn't necessarily over so much as on hiatus with the hope that it might not return. The Founders agreed to end hostilities in exchange for the cure, and they're presumably keeping their word for now, but nothing is stopping them from trying again later. That's why Odo has to go back to the link on a more permanent basis - not just give them the cure and leave, but stick around and do his best to really change their minds with his experiences. If he succeeds, the war is over for real. If not, they'll be back, sooner or later.

Just like the Terminator!


All jokes aside, I still think the two minutes wrapped up of the war and the "Founder problem" is very unsatisfying.

Odo was never a great influencer of Founders. Normally they would still distrust him as they distrust all solids. Remember that he linked with them already with all his memories and arguments but got turned into a solid as a result, if that's not mistrust then nothing is.

 

[WinterSoldier]

I don't think the show ever said they did change their minds. With the way DS9 ended, the war isn't necessarily over so much as on hiatus with the hope that it might not return. The Founders agreed to end hostilities in exchange for the cure, and they're presumably keeping their word for now, but nothing is stopping them from trying again later. That's why Odo has to go back to the link on a more permanent basis - not just give them the cure and leave, but stick around and do his best to really change their minds with his experiences. If he succeeds, the war is over for real. If not, they'll be back, sooner or later.

Is this answered through Star Trek Online? The changelings do come back. Is that game even canon?

 

[Discofan]

In fact when you stop to think about it. Luther Sloan was an idealist and a very clever and devious mind. It's hard to believe that he would have fallen into Bashir's crude trap. It's very possible that he decided that his life was a small price to pay to resolve the conflict. Giving Bashir a cure coupled with a mind control element would be a Sloan move much more believable and coherent with the way he fooled Bashir previously.

Of course, Odo will never know it since he's samely controlled why else would he have willingly left the woman he loved above all!! Remember that in a previous incarnation he's killed 8000 people to save her!!!

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Is this answered through Star Trek Online? The changelings do come back. Is that game even canon?

Nothing is canon other than the shows/films.

In fact when you stop to think about it. Luther Sloan was an idealist and a very clever and devious mind. It's hard to believe that he would have fallen into Bashir's crude trap. It's very possible that he decided that his life was a small price to pay to resolve the conflict. Giving Bashir a cure coupled with a mind control element would be a Sloan move much more believable and coherent with the way he fooled Bashir previously.

Of course, Odo will never know it since he's samely controlled why else would he have willingly left the woman he loved above all!! Remember that in a previous incarnation he's killed 8000 people to save her!!!

Sloan an idealist? He joined 31 by choice, so I'm not buying that one.

 

[Discofan]

Sloan an idealist? He joined 31 by choice, so I'm not buying that one.

I can't force you to but Sloan sacrificed his personal life and put his life on the line for what he believed. For example, if something had gone wrong when the Romulan shot him he would have been dead for good. Plus he killed himself when he could have just decided to let Bashir take the secret from him and live.

If that doesn't define an idealist then nothing will.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I can't force you to but Sloan sacrificed his personal life and put his life on the line for what he believed. For example, if something had gone wrong when the Romulan shot him he would have been dead for good. Plus he killed himself when he could have just decided to let Bashir take the secret from him and live.

If that doesn't define an idealist then nothing will.

Fair enough, but if the ideals he's willing to die for are those of sec. 31, he should be all for leaving the founders to die.

 

[Discofan]

Fair enough, but if the ideals he's willing to die for are those of sec. 31, he should be all for leaving the founders to die.

Unless his people realized that the disease would not work fast enough and that it would mean billions of people dying before the Founders are finally defeated. Not to mention, that the Founders would instruct their soldiers to fight to the last man before they died, while mind controlled Founders would solve the conflict immediately and order the armies to stand down, which they did.

 

[HugeLobes]

Oh, Odo, I would change the whole Odo/Kira thing, that was weird.

Yup. Felt like such a forced relationship.

 

[Tosk]

Odo was never a great influencer of Founders. Normally they would still distrust him as they distrust all solids. Remember that he linked with them already with all his memories and arguments but got turned into a solid as a result, if that's not mistrust then nothing is.

The Female Changeling already laid it out for all to see a season earlier. "Odo is a changeling. Bringing him home, returning him to the Great Link, means more to us than the Alpha Quadrant itself."

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Unless his people realized that the disease would not work fast enough and that it would mean billions of people dying before the Founders are finally defeated. Not to mention, that the Founders would instruct their soldiers to fight to the last man before they died, while mind controlled Founders would solve the conflict immediately and order the armies to stand down, which they did.

That's just not Sec. 31. They're all about the survival of the Federation at any cost. If that requires some collateral damage, then that's just what it takes to save the Federation. Especially in the case of the Founders, who by S31 standards are an implacable, never-ending threat to the Federation which cannot be allowed to exist. Leaving any Founder alive at all is a failure for Section 31.

The Female Changeling already laid it out for all to see a season earlier. "Odo is a changeling. Bringing him home, returning him to the Great Link, means more to us than the Alpha Quadrant itself."

That was never at all credible. If the Female Changeling had said to Odo in that same episode 'Come home to the link and we will withdraw all our forces from the AQ and never return.' he would have agreed without hesitation. The nature of her actions proved again and again that the Dominion cared about *nothing* more than eliminating any perceived threat to their existence, even if that came at the cost of Odo.