If You Could Rewrite DS9

[Discofan]

Sisko spoke of "black people" because he knows his history, since it's something of importance to him. He also knows all about the sanctuary districts of 21st century North America and the great social change they brought in as well. In early TNG Picard was a staunch Frenchman, defending his culture. Uhura spoke Swahili. People are influenced by their culture, heritage and history in various ways. Sisko highlighted the injustices of 1960s Las Vegas due to the social exclusion and in his own life teaches Jake to embrace all other species and cultures equally, because what he know of the history of his race has coloured who he is as a person.

He didn't say "black people", he said, "our people", as if there was still a clear separation between "his people" and the rest of the world!
Even the idea that in "enlightened" 24th century they'd still be people with completely black or white ancestry is absurd. Very few people can make that claim now! and they can only go back five or six generations at most. To someone of the 24th century, it should be virtually impossible. So for Sisko to talk about "our people" as if there was an interdict in effect about interracial marriages is insane.

The whole racial thing about DS9 is backward anti-logical nonsense! Come on! People are having children with people from other PLANETS! and Sisko is STILL going on about "our people". That's ridiculous!

 

[BigDaveX]

I think one of the major opportunities that the show missed was showing how the Bajorans and Maquis might interact, given their common enemy. I think it would have been more interesting if the Bajoran government had thrown their doors open to the Maquis, and Sisko was forced to honour the policy given that the Bajorans technically owned DS9, resulting in more of a Maquis presence on the station itself.

 

[Tosk]

Explain to me why there never were any homosexuals in the show except in the (evil) universe and then those were really nasty people. How coincidental!

Why should I? It has absolutely zero to do with the point we were really discussing. You were complaining about Ben never being with non-black women (despite the fact that he quite willingly slept with MUJadzia), as though that's something we should be up in arms about. I fail to see why we should care.

 

[Armus]

Once the wormhole had been discovered, but before the Dominion became a threat, starfleet should have assigned a proper starship to explore the Gamma quadrant. The crew could have been recurring characters. The Defiant's purpose was not for exploration or long term voyages.

 

[Tenacity]

In early TNG Picard was a staunch Frenchman, defending his culture.

But when did Picard ever refer to White people as "our people?"

When did Harry Kim refer to East Asians as "our people."

When did Geordi (born in sub-saharan Africa) ever refer to Black people as "our people?" Or Uhura?

Is it that they don't know history, or is it that Star Trek right from the start has put forward the idea that Humanity has come together, and racial identification is basically gone. This is something that TOS got right, and right from the start

Given the thousands of years of Black history, including centuries after the creation of warp drive, why would what happened in a small desert town in the late 1950's be a blip on Sisko's radar?

 

[Horizons96]

where the fact they were both women didn't even register with any of the characters.

Yes, it's implied that it is above needing to be spelt out. This is also the case in 'Rules of Acquisition', when Dax discusses with Pel about loving Quark. At this point Dax thought Pel was male.

DAX: I don't care what anybody says, I love him.
PEL: So do I.
DAX: You really do, don't you?
PEL: What?
DAX: Love Quark. Don't bother trying to deny it. I've seen the way you look at him.
PEL: Please, keep your voice down.
DAX: Does he know?
PEL: He doesn't even know I'm a female.
DAX: You're a woman?​

I prefer this approach to glaring tokenism any day.

 

[Nyotarules]

Sisko should have had some substantial involvement with non-Black women. Don't let the actor impose such stupid limitation on his character.

Avery Brooks was keen to use his influence to get black female actors jobs, more power to him, in the 1990's their white counterparts did not need that extra help. They had one foot in the door, just for being white.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

I'd also loved to have mention of the Defiant coming back from a failed search for Voyager, maybe the inclusion of a character who had a family member onboard--a nice way to give a little nod to their sister show.

 

[Nyotarules]

That's what I heard and when I did, it struck me as funny that Sisko was never involved with non-black women.

Compared to all the nonwhite women that Kirk and Picard dated right?

 

[BigDaveX]

How many women did Sisko actually show any level of romantic interest in during the course of the series? As I recall, when you take Jennifer and her Mirror Universe counterpart out of the equation (plus his fake seduction of Mirror!Dax), he only showed interest in a grand total of two women; Fenna in "Second Sight", and then Kasidy late in the third season, which quickly turned into a serious relationship.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

^ It's reminiscent of some articles I've read about the gay community, with authors saying about how the apparent ingrained discrimination gay men have towards overweight or feminine or men of other races. It's almost as if they're saying that as a gay man then you must sleep with everyone, regardless of who they are. As a once obese gay man I know that my body type wasn't to everyone's liking, just the same as I'm not a huge fan of 'twinks'. You're attracted to who you're attracted to.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

How many women did Sisko actually show any level of romantic interest in during the course of the series? As I recall, when you take Jennifer and her Mirror Universe counterpart out of the equation (plus his fake seduction of Mirror!Dax), he only showed interest in a grand total of two women; Fenna in "Second Sight", and then Kasidy late in the third season, which quickly turned into a serious relationship.

He was also hit on by Cassandra in "Paradise" but turned her down because she was being used as a sexual pawn in Alixus' plan to keep them in line. Just as how he turned Dax down in "Fascination" when she was being telepathically 'manipulated' by Lwaxana Troi's zanthi fever. He didn't push either away in disgust of who they were but more for the circumstances that he found himself in with two attractive women throwing themselves at him.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

How many women did Sisko actually show any level of romantic interest in during the course of the series?

Sisko is a complicated man, and no one understands him but his woman.

 

[Prax]

That must've really hurt when muJadzia found out that her man really was dead, and this Sisko wasn't him, and this Sisko was leaving.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

^ She bounced back and bedded Bashir

The Mirror Universe storyline is one I'm on the fence about whether I'd keep or not, some of the stories were interesting and it was nice to see how that universe developed after the original encounter, but after the first crossover I'm not sure that they really needed to return to it again and again.

 

[BigDaveX]

The Mirror Universe storyline is one I'm on the fence about whether I'd keep or not, some of the stories were interesting and it was nice to see how that universe developed after the original encounter, but after the first crossover I'm not sure that they really needed to return to it again and again.

I'd say the first three are worth keeping, as the first two are pretty solid to me, and "Shattered Mirror" would have made a nice conclusion to the arc, with the Terrans firmly in control of Terok Nor, and Sisko no longer having any reason to visit the Mirror Universe with Jennifer's death. However, they had to go and mess things up with the pointless "Resurrection" and the huge mess that was "The Emperor's New Cloak."

 

[Qonundrum]

IMHO, DS9 was great from the get-go. If anything, I might tinker with "Emissary" just to make the pilot feel more in-tune with DS9 instead of spending more time with generic "what s love?" and using Sir Patrick better in scenes after his initial meeting with Sisko on the Enterprise. The story is there but it feels rough around the edges.

Most everything else in season 1 (Ben/Jake, Bashir, Kira, Dax, Odo/Quark, etc) is already robust - and gets better with each season.

 

[Refuge]

I'd also loved to have mention of the Defiant coming back from a failed search for Voyager, maybe the inclusion of a character who had a family member onboard--a nice way to give a little nod to their sister show.

A little more 'cross over' would have fitted well.

 

[Discofan]

The MU really bugs me. They all live very different lives, yet for centuries they managed to meet, marry the same people and have the exact same children with them, except for Jake's mother who didn't have a child in the MU. and that just shows how stupid it is to expect for everyone to have a double in the MU. Say if Jake meets a woman in the RU and has children with her. In the MU that woman will either remain childless or have children with someone else and that means that the number of discrepancies will increase exponentially from this point on and yet we're supposed to believe that EVERYONE but Jake has a double in the MU!!!

 

[Tosk]

But when did Picard ever refer to White people as "our people?"

When did Harry Kim refer to East Asians as "our people."

When did Geordi (born in sub-saharan Africa) ever refer to Black people as "our people?" Or Uhura?

When would it have been relevant? What scene are you thinking of where Geordi had any reason to speak specifically about where he came from? What scene was it where Harry was making a point about Asian people?

Edit: Actually, scratch that question. It doesn't matter. Just because previous characters may not have identified one way or the other as anything beyond Earthlings, it has no bearing on Sisko doing it. Earth didn't become homogenized just because it stopped being prejudiced.

Is it that they don't know history, or is it that Star Trek right from the start has put forward the idea that Humanity has come together, and racial identification is basically gone. This is something that TOS got right, and right from the start

Like Chekov's staunch pride in being Russian? Or the way people would give Spock shit for being a half-breed? (Or in the case of Bones, just for being Vulcan at all.)