Ezri II
Captain
Could be. Still, I think T'Pol was in the dark about the Romulans. The leadership of the Vulcans understood it is interesting if the general public did.
If you could change a single scene in Enterprise...
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Could be. Still, I think T'Pol was in the dark about the Romulans. The leadership of the Vulcans understood it is interesting if the general public did.
I think the book was poorly written with terrible characterization. Actually, I would say the characterization was worse than TATV, which is a tough to do. Archer and T'Pol were unidentifiable in the book. In TATV, T'Pol was weird, but had flashes of her normal self. Archer was mostly himself. In the book, I thought both characters had been possessed.
I didn't find the scene in the quarters an insult. T'Pol reflected on Trip in his room and Archer came by as they, together, shared their pain. I liked it. Perhaps you didn't like that they changed topics to the upcoming speech?
I'm sorry you don't like TATV. I think there might be help for you; you can continue to pretend it didn't exist. I know I feel that way about other episodes in the series.
I didn't find the scene in the quarters an insult. T'Pol reflected on Trip in his room and Archer came by as they, together, shared their pain. I liked it. Perhaps you didn't like that they changed topics to the upcoming speech?
I'm sorry you don't like TATV. I think there might be help for you; you can continue to pretend it didn't exist. I know I feel that way about other episodes in the series.
So you admit to awful characterization in TATV. Good.
I beg to differ. They were a bit off in "Kobayashi Maru," but in TGTMD, they were quite OK. T'pol was a bit too emotional, but that was to be expected, she was dealing with both Elizabeth's and Trip's (apparent) death. Throughout the show, Archer always lacked consistency, so I would hardly call him possessed. [My apologies for going off-topic]
Exactly. It was a shameful marginalization of a major (arguably the most popular) character.
Thank you for caring.
Everything always comes down to TATV. Fascinating!
On the speech, I thought it worked. Trip's sacrifice was for the speech to happen, but more importantly the speech represents the unification of the powers we know exist in TOS: Vulcans, humans, Andorians, etc.
Then again, Trip isn't my favorite character in ENT -- Archer is, followed by T'Pol.
Yeah, I agree the characterizations weren't tremendous in TATV. I felt sorriest for T'Pol, who seemed lost (and seemed more lost in TGTMD). Trip's death was a bad characterization and a crummy way to die. Archer, though, was mostly right on.
You know, this might be a whole new topic for another thread: I like Archer best so I may judge episodes based on what happens to him. For example, I hated Harbinger -- one reason is how poorly Archer was characterized. He didn't seem himself.
Then again, Trip isn't my favorite character in ENT -- Archer is, followed by T'Pol.
Yeah, I agree the characterizations weren't tremendous in TATV. I felt sorriest for T'Pol, who seemed lost (and seemed more lost in TGTMD). Trip's death was a bad characterization and a crummy way to die. Archer, though, was mostly right on.
You know, this might be a whole new topic for another thread: I like Archer best so I may judge episodes based on what happens to him. For example, I hated Harbinger -- one reason is how poorly Archer was characterized. He didn't seem himself.
I recently watched Shockwave part 2 again one scene I would like to have seen changed slightly with Hoshi dealing with her clausrophobia when she was crawling around the Enterprise conduits have a more trapped enclosed feeling when she's hiding from the Suliban in the conduits and she wouldn't have lost her shirt either.Malcolm could have helped her cope with her claustrophobia after they knocked out the Suliban guards.
I haven't been in ENT in a while but I'll definitely play this...mostly because it's an easy one to answer.....Trip's STUPID FRAKKING death!!! Worst. Character. Assassination. Ever.
What really sucks is that (I didn't realize it at the time, but) that scene/episode ruined the entire series for me. I haven't bought any on DVD because I can't get over how stupid it ended. I actually laugh when I see it on SciFi now....with the exception of 1 or 2 episodes.
What really sucks is that (I didn't realize it at the time, but) that scene/episode ruined the entire series for me. I haven't bought any on DVD because I can't get over how stupid it ended. I actually laugh when I see it on SciFi now....with the exception of 1 or 2 episodes.
Kitkat! Great to see you again!...even though... 
about your Enterprise-aversion.
Have you taken a look at The Good That Men Do? It might help. Mangels/Martin/Margaret actually did change a few scenes...
about your Enterprise-aversion.Have you taken a look at The Good That Men Do? It might help. Mangels/Martin/Margaret actually did change a few scenes...
*hugs HR* Good to see you too. 
No I haven't checked that out yet. I guess I should. Especially considering how much I loved the show when it was on, I just got pissed beyond belief at TATV. I can honestly say, as someone who is notoriously easy on all things entertainment that I have never been so ticked off at writers and/or a show in my entire life.
No I haven't checked that out yet. I guess I should. Especially considering how much I loved the show when it was on, I just got pissed beyond belief at TATV. I can honestly say, as someone who is notoriously easy on all things entertainment that I have never been so ticked off at writers and/or a show in my entire life.
^ "The Good That Men Do" does have a way of making things right. It's far from perfect, but don't let some of the absurdly negative comments from certain people here discourage you. The book mocks some of the more ridiculous aspects of TATV in a rather subtle way, and it made me smile (even laugh) on more than one occasion.
That book is MILES better than "TATV" on most levels. A damn shame the story wasn't concocted until after the spring of 2005. Because it'd have made for one of the best TREK series finales ever.
Captain X
Rear Admiral
I can't say I agree, really. The plot is just as absurd (no helping that unfortuately) and pretty much all the same problems as far as characters being out of character, too much telling and not enough showing, a complete lack of anyone outside of T'Pol really doing any kind of mourning considering they all think Trip is dead, and really pretty much every other bitch point I had about TATV, except the one about Trip dying in an absurd manner - now he just fakes his death in an extrememly absurd manner.
^ Well, I do agree with you to some degree, but you have to take into account that Mangels & Martin explained the events in the holoprogram, rather than ignoring them and completely rewriting them. Like it or not, TATV was used as a base for TGTMD (and that also bothered me sometimes).
On the lack of grief for Trip - Reed, Phlox, and Archer already knew that Trip was not dead (explains the 'wink' in sickbay), and you can't really expect award winning acting performances from them.
Hoshi & Travis - really, does antibody care all that much about how they feel? It would have been nice to see them affected, but the authors didn't think so for some reason.
And slam me all you want for this, but I really loved all the Jake/Nog stuff.
On the lack of grief for Trip - Reed, Phlox, and Archer already knew that Trip was not dead (explains the 'wink' in sickbay), and you can't really expect award winning acting performances from them.
Hoshi & Travis - really, does antibody care all that much about how they feel? It would have been nice to see them affected, but the authors didn't think so for some reason.
And slam me all you want for this, but I really loved all the Jake/Nog stuff.
Well that can only be expected since "TATV" was and still is considered canonical and official even if most of the fanbase doesn't like it. The novels are sort of given a general direction by the franchise honchos and the writers never have completely unfettered freedom to write anything in the universe they want, however outlandish.
Captain X
Rear Admiral
I'm not real big into finale fixes, but while I'm impressed that there is an official one, there is at least one fan written finale fix that I found to be much better. Well, make that two, though it isn't done yet. The cool thing about that one is that it manages to crossover ENT, TNG, and VOY without coming off as complete fanwank since the story actually takes place post-NEM. The other one uses the TCW to good effect (for once) and even manages to squeeze some drama out of it. Even better was that it spawned several sequels.
No one else knew though, and the book is almost the same as far as being business as usual after his "death".
Well, they are supposed to be main characters after all, and both of them seemed to be fond of Trip, so I would think they'd be affected by his "death" way more than they were.
I won't slam, but while I am a DS9 fan, I felt it was just as inappropriate to have it framed around them in the future as it was to have Riker running around on the holodeck.
Wow. Such a shame to have any fan feel this way after a fave show is cancelled. I felt that way about one of the elements of the finale of DS9, so I have not taken another look at the finale. I still love the show, tho.*hugs HR* Good to see you too.
No I haven't checked that out yet. I guess I should. Especially considering how much I loved the show when it was on, I just got pissed beyond belief at TATV. I can honestly say, as someone who is notoriously easy on all things entertainment that I have never been so ticked off at writers and/or a show in my entire life.
I hope you give TGTMD a read and see what you think. Considering your current state of mind, ya got nothin' to lose.
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He blew himself up so Archer could make a speech?!
Ezri II
Captain
He blew himself up so Archer could make a speech?!
And what a fine speech it was. There was so many people wishing they were some other place during Archer's speech. Like T'Pol that wanted to be any place then being with Archer.
Sure it does! Brannon Braga said so!
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