If TNG gets fx makeover, should they redesign the Stargazer?
- Thread starter Cadet49
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You're a baaaad man.
Like Jamie Hyneman, in space!No, because Picard really is that old.
(please please please somebody photoshop Picard with a beret...mustache optional!)
Yeah, and then redesign it again for the second time once more!
Others have already said it very eloquently: TOS-R needed CGI because the original model film elements don't exist anymore to be rescanned at a higher resolution. TNG-R doesn't, because those model shots are all still in the archive, and can therefore be scanned at a higher res..... and on those occasions when those elements are missing, TNG-R has in fact used CGI to cover for that.
Make no mistake, if the original special effects elements had still existed from TOS, then the TOS-R people would probably have not changed to CGI simply for the sake of it. I feel certain that if they'd actually had the option to rescan those original film elements at higher resolution, then that's exactly what they would've done, and left well enough alone.
But they didn't have that option, and the CG was seen as a viable alternative. I don't think the CGI was ever about 'updating' TOS to something more modern. I'd argue such an exercise would be almost impossible anyway.
And whatever one's personal views on the asthetics of things like the Stargazer etc, the addition of CG is not going to improve them. And I'd bargain that the wholesale replacement of the design with something completely new, as the OP seems to be suggesting, would I think be received very poorly by the fandom as a whole.....
Make no mistake, if the original special effects elements had still existed from TOS, then the TOS-R people would probably have not changed to CGI simply for the sake of it. I feel certain that if they'd actually had the option to rescan those original film elements at higher resolution, then that's exactly what they would've done, and left well enough alone.
But they didn't have that option, and the CG was seen as a viable alternative. I don't think the CGI was ever about 'updating' TOS to something more modern. I'd argue such an exercise would be almost impossible anyway. And whatever one's personal views on the asthetics of things like the Stargazer etc, the addition of CG is not going to improve them. And I'd bargain that the wholesale replacement of the design with something completely new, as the OP seems to be suggesting, would I think be received very poorly by the fandom as a whole.....
I thought it was a new model not a kitbash.
It was a new model using existing parts: a kitbash.
"If"?
To be specific, the studio model was newly built, and was based on the ready room prop (NCC-7100), which itself was a kitbash of two AMT Enterprise model kits and several Anime models.
This image shows what came from where.
I found a thread that discusses a model build: http://www.therpf.com/f10/ready-room-scale-stargazer-parts-id-build-104752/
I'm totally seeing it now.
I saw the studio model on display at one of the exhibitions, along with the 4-footer Enterprise. Both were in really bad shape. The Stargazer was initially painted to look distressed, but it was starting to fall apart. The saucer was splitting, and a warp nacelle or two were falling off.
You're confusing Star Trek with Star Wars. In Star Trek, the VFX in TOS had to be redone for the HD transfer, and in TNG the VFX were mostly fine. In Star Wars, its creator seems to have some severe complex about constantly changing things in his films just for the sake of changing them. That's not what the HD treatment for Trek is about.
Please don't let me take this thread too far afield, but am I alone in thinking Lucas had very little to do with the ongoing changes to the original trilogy from the 1997 SEs onward? Around that time Lucas was immersed in other things (family, the ranch, the business side of LucasFilm, pre-production on Episode I, etc.). I just don't picture him sitting in the screening room in 2011 saying, "Let's put a rock in front of R2-D2 in that shot."
Contrary to popular belief, filmmakers (including Lucas) very rarely (if ever) revisit past projects in this way; they've long since moved onto other projects or retired. Spielberg did it with CE3K for commercial reasons only. If anything they give their blessing to a new team (usually with very limited resources), visit the editing bay so they can be seen in EPK material participating in the project, and put their stamp of approval on the finished product and collect a check. Richard Donner had little if anything to do with the "Richard Donner Cut" of Superman 2 (save for shooting the original footage -- and it shows), and Robert Wise had just as little or less to do with the "Director's Edition" of TMP. These were not creative endeavors (although I greatly enjoyed seeing Donner's original Superman 2 scenes in crystal clear HD when the original footage had long been presumed lost), they were marketing projects designed for the home video market -- extreme examples of something that originated with stickers on home video boxes stating "Director Approved Edition" with the director's signature (ala Criterion Collection laserdiscs way back in the day).
I attribute the often arbitrary tweaks to the OT to a revolving door production team (possibly headed by Rick McCallum) of junior CGI artists and editors (judging by the often sketchy, random results) given the mandate of keeping the Star Wars property shiny and relevant, and -- to a lesser extent -- consistent with the prequel trilogy. I think Lucas stepped away from the OT creatively with Jedi (and even said he was doing so at the time) and only reengaged with Star Wars with Episode I (and look how that turned out).
To tie this in with the Trek Remastered projects, with little unifying, creative guidance CBS-D -- given the mandate of keeping the Trek property shiny and relevant -- took more creative liberties with TOS-R (with mixed, inconsistent results) but -- to their credit IMO -- dialed that back for TNG-R and concentrated on the technical challenges of reassembling the shows for HD, a task for which I believe they were better suited given the lack of a strong creative hand guiding the project.
I wish there were other people involved that would come up with stupid ideas. Doesn't fit the mold, though. We're talking about one of the biggest media franchises around, and in particular the original source material of such. Letting the inmates run the asylum is far less likely than the warden having a screw loose...
That's what's frustrating about the SE's...lots of good worthwhile changes submerged in a whole bunch of other stupid unnecessary changes.
That's what's frustrating about the SE's...lots of good worthwhile changes submerged in a whole bunch of other stupid unnecessary changes.
The only thing I would want is to resize the Stargazer in the shot where it's being towed below/aft of the Enterprise. Make it appear smaller.
This and the other comments just vividly illustrate that you guys are either unwilling or incapable to understand what I had tried to communicate all along in the debates concerning the Enterprise-C.
In a "parallel universe" ("Yesterday Enterprise" director David Carson) the Enterprise-C could have looked like any other Federation ship, there is no reason I'm aware of why it did have to look like the Probert design on the D's conference lounge wall of "our" universe.
On the contrary, the design of the Sternbach-C emphasizes the suggestion of an alternate or parallel universe, IMHO. Replacing it with the Probert-C would obfuscate the issue.
Back to the OT, redesigning the Stargazer would also require to remove the desktop model in Picard's office or ready room. I really see no good reason for that, either, add to this that the Stargazer depiction fits nicely with Picard's description of it in "Relics":
PICARD: The first ship I ever served aboard as Captain was called the Stargazer. It was an overworked, underpowered vessel, always on the verge of flying apart at the seams. In every measurable sense, my Enterprise is far superior. But there are times when I would give almost anything to command the Stargazer again.
Bob
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