If TMP had kept going

[Pauln6]

You can tell from the context of the scene in Star Wars that the Kessel Run is some sort of measure of speed or a regular trading route. In TMP, it's "She's... Deltan," some hemming and hawing with no context whatsoever, and then Ilia saying, "My oath of celibacy is on record, Captain," out of nowhere. You get the idea that the oath of celibacy is important somehow, but there's never an indication as to how or why.

I never would have known Deltan pheromones were a thing if I hadn't read promotional material and the novelisation (my first viewing was SLV on TV) so I just thought Sulu was bamboozled by a pretty face. Later on though, we see that Ilia's mere touch does funky things to Chekov. So while at age 10 I may not have understood the full context, I got the general gist that Ilia wasn't really supposed to touch humans.

I actually read the TWOK novelisation before TMP and the Deltans in that were awesome.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I actually read the TWOK novelisation before TMP and the Deltans in that were awesome.

So you had additional context that the movie itself did not provide.

 

[Pauln6]

So you had additional context that the movie itself did not provide.

Only what was on the Weetabix cards the time I first saw the SLV, which wasn't even accurate. I suspect the celibacy stuff went right over my head.

 

[Maurice]

Sulu's fawning is over the top.

Goerge Takei has never been a great actor.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Goerge Takei has never been a great actor.

Ohhhh.... my!

 

[Pauln6]

Goerge Takei has never been a great actor.

His TOS stuff isn't bad and he was great in Heroes and inspiring in World Enough and Time. I think he just struggles to make the astonishingly hammy dialogue he's given in the movies sound even remotely natural. He does fine with decent dialogue.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

His TOS stuff isn't bad

More miss than hit.

 

[Maurice]

His TOS stuff isn't bad and he was great in Heroes and inspiring in World Enough and Time. I think he just struggles to make the astonishingly hammy dialogue he's given in the movies sound even remotely natural. He does fine with decent dialogue.

"Inspiring" is not a word I would ever associate with a Takei performance. He's chewing up the scenery in much of WEAT.

 

[DonIago]

Well, I mean, he had to stand toe-to-toe with Shatner...

 

[Pauln6]

To each their own, but I like his Heroes and Phase II performances. I think he has a fairly limited range but I think that's true of all the supporting cast. Takei does a decent angry gravitas but he comes across as hammy in the the more light hearted stuff. I expect his theatre performances are good.

 

[Mysterion]

A line that's always kind if bugged me in TMP is when Kirk remarks on his insistence the Starfleet replace Spock with another Vulcan as science officer. What's up with this? Is Kirk that obsessed with Vulcans (and/or Spock) or is he just being a racist? Or is this just a really bad piece of writing? In the vast UFP and Starfleet are there no other officers of any other race who would be just as capable of filling that position on Enterprise? To me this is like if they were trying to replace an accountant on the ship and Kirk was saying "Oh, can we get someone who's Jewish? They're really good with money, you know."

 

[JonnyQuest037]

What's up with this? Is Kirk that obsessed with Vulcans (and/or Spock) or is he just being a racist?

I'm sure it was intended as more the former than the latter, but I can certainly see how you could interpret it that way.

Or is this just a really bad piece of writing?

Yes, but fortunately, it's in TMP, so it has lots of company.

To me this is like if they were trying to replace an accountant on the ship and Kirk was saying "Oh, can we get someone who's Jewish? They're really good with money, you know."

"...Damn it, Sulu, came down with lungworms again. Can we get another Asian guy there? I want a helmsman who knows Kung Fu." (I'll 100% stop here, I promise. )

 

[STEPhon IT]

A line that's always kind if bugged me in TMP is when Kirk remarks on his insistence the Starfleet replace Spock with another Vulcan as science officer. What's up with this? Is Kirk that obsessed with Vulcans (and/or Spock) or is he just being a racist? Or is this just a really bad piece of writing? In the vast UFP and Starfleet are there no other officers of any other race who would be just as capable of filling that position on Enterprise? To me this is like if they were trying to replace an accountant on the ship and Kirk was saying "Oh, can we get someone who's Jewish? They're really good with money, you know."

It's bad piece of writing, catering to fans of knowledge we're already familiar with. Spock is our science guy and for us he's not replaceable.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

A line that's always kind if bugged me in TMP is when Kirk remarks on his insistence the Starfleet replace Spock with another Vulcan as science officer. What's up with this? Is Kirk that obsessed with Vulcans (and/or Spock) or is he just being a racist? Or is this just a really bad piece of writing? In the vast UFP and Starfleet are there no other officers of any other race who would be just as capable of filling that position on Enterprise? To me this is like if they were trying to replace an accountant on the ship and Kirk was saying "Oh, can we get someone who's Jewish? They're really good with money, you know."

I thought it was just a silly way to communicate to the audience that he misses Spock.

 

[Discofan]

A line that's always kind if bugged me in TMP is when Kirk remarks on his insistence the Starfleet replace Spock with another Vulcan as science officer. What's up with this? Is Kirk that obsessed with Vulcans (and/or Spock) or is he just being a racist? Or is this just a really bad piece of writing? In the vast UFP and Starfleet are there no other officers of any other race who would be just as capable of filling that position on Enterprise? To me this is like if they were trying to replace an accountant on the ship and Kirk was saying "Oh, can we get someone who's Jewish? They're really good with money, you know."

Not to mention that in "YesterYear" when Spock vanished from reality he was replaced by an Andorian!!

 

[Yellow Flame Sushi]

It's bad piece of writing, catering to fans of knowledge we're already familiar with. Spock is our science guy and for us he's not replaceable.

Sonak wasn't Spock and yet Kirk recommended him for the position of science officer aboard the Enterprise. Perhaps Vulcans (and their hybrids) are simply better suited on average for such analytical roles. The intended replacement of Spock by Xon for Phase II could also support this interpretation.

 

[Mysterion]

Sonak wasn't Spock and yet Kirk recommended him for the position of science officer aboard the Enterprise. Perhaps Vulcans (and their hybrids) are simply better suited on average for such analytical roles. The intended replacement of Spock by Xon for Phase II could also support this interpretation.

My point is, though, that is not necessarily good thinking. And hopefully this is not the sort of policy enacted by the UFP and/or Starfleet, which is supposedly a culture that embraces diversity and inclusion. Surely, there are likely some Vulcans that are not good at sciences or other analytical work. Likewise there are probably humans, andorians, tellarites, etc. that can calculate circles around those Vulcans. So, the question remains why is Kirk insisting on finding a Vulcan instead of asking for the best available officer regardless of species. I would expect that being in San Francisco, at the bright center of Starfleet, there would have been any number of officers at hand who could have filled the job.

 

[Yellow Flame Sushi]

My point is, though, that is not necessarily good thinking.

It may just be a manifestation of Kirk's possibly unhealthy fixation on Vulcans after serving with Spock for five years. We know that Decker was qualified and rated to serve as science officer aboard the refit, and while watching The Ultimate Computer computer recently I noticed that the science officer aboard Commodore Wesley's Lexington appears to be Homo sapiens as well.

 

[Pauln6]

It may just be a manifestation of Kirk's possibly unhealthy fixation on Vulcans after serving with Spock for five years. We know that Decker was qualified and rated to serve as science officer aboard the refit, and while watching The Ultimate Computer computer recently I noticed that the science officer aboard Commodore Wesley's Lexington appears to be Homo sapiens as well.

Saavik was first officer (white collar) in STIII not science officer, although it looks like David was occupying science officer position or you would have thought the actual science officer would have got some dialogue. Chekov appeared to be pulling double duty (grey collar).

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Saavik was first officer (white collar) in STIII not science officer, although it looks like David was occupying science officer position or you would have thought the actual science officer would have got some dialogue.

AFAIK, Saavik was intended to to be the acting science officer on the Grissom. The white collar indicated that she had graduated from the Academy and was in the command division, not that she was the ship's first officer. Had we even seen a Lieutenant serving as first since Number One in "The Cage"?

Chekov appeared to be pulling double duty (grey collar).

I believe that at the time of shooting on TWOK, Chekov was only intended to be the science officer (or perhaps the security officer) on the Reliant. His being the first officer was only something that was added to the Reliant's initial log entry after the fact. That log entry is the only time in the movie that Chekov is stated to be the Reliant's first officer.