Poll If this was the end, would you be satisfied?

[SJGardner]

I've been watching since 1975. They make the same mistakes over and over (as has MacFarlane).

Knowing MacFarlane is one of the reasons I'm wary about checking The Orville out. I've become soured on his style and sense of humor over the years I've followed Family Guy (but I admit it's probably the same thing as blaming everything bad with 90s Trek on Rick Berman)... all the heavy handed analogies and allegories, all the times he tried to make fun of a political ideology in a way that made the opposing one look even worse in comparison, not to mention all the anti-LGBT and misogynistic bullshit he's greenlit as Family Guy's showrunner (remember the cutaway joke in Family Guy that claimed Laura Linney only ever gets any pictures of her taken accidentally?)... even if I try to set all these aside, most of the humor in his animated work falls flat for me and is only made enjoyable by the superb Hungarian voice acting his shows get courtesy of Comedy Central, because it's mostly based on "heh, that's a pop culture reference, geddit?". All this, compared with the memories of how bland, slow-paced, formulaic, emotionless and clinical TNG lives on in my memory, gave me huge doubts about giving The Orville a chance. Even if the influx of venerable Trek alumni should be a good sign for me.

Yes, I'm biased. Very much. And it makes my head hurt.

 

[ITDUDE]

Here's a follow up question: Who of the people who are satisfied with this ending are going to not come back next season?

That’s not what the poll is asking. IF this was the end =/= who hates Discovery and is not coming back.
I voted yes in the poll and am definitely coming back next season BECAUSE it’s not the end.

 

[Alan Roi]

Knowing MacFarlane is one of the reasons I'm wary about checking The Orville out. I've become soured on his style and sense of humor over the years I've followed Family Guy (but I admit it's probably the same thing as blaming everything bad with 90s Trek on Rick Berman)... all the heavy handed analogies and allegories, all the times he tried to make fun of a political ideology in a way that made the opposing one look even worse in comparison, not to mention all the anti-LGBT and misogynistic bullshit he's greenlit as Family Guy's showrunner (remember the cutaway joke in Family Guy that claimed Laura Linney only ever gets any pictures of her taken accidentally?)... even if I try to set all these aside, most of the humor in his animated work falls flat for me and is only made enjoyable by the superb Hungarian voice acting his shows get courtesy of Comedy Central, because it's mostly based on "heh, that's a pop culture reference, geddit?". All this, compared with the memories of how bland, slow-paced, formulaic, emotionless and clinical TNG lives on in my memory, gave me huge doubts about giving The Orville a chance. Even if the influx of venerable Trek alumni should be a good sign for me.

Yes, I'm biased. Very much. And it makes my head hurt.

I actually find it interesting at times to watch Star Trek filtered through not merely his sense of humor, but the actual intellectual parts of his brain. I can't say they paint a pretty picture much of the time, but they do paint an illuminating one. his view of Star Trek, IMHO, is really colored by the Hollywood Culture he lives in and doesn't really think to deeply about.

 

[Starflight]

Knowing MacFarlane is one of the reasons I'm wary about checking The Orville out.

Agreed, I've also refrained from checking out The Orville despite it allegedly being exactly the kind of thing I'd like (TNG with a comedic edge), entirely due to exposure to McFarlane's other stuff. Family Guy used to make me laugh when I was about 13, but I stopped watching it over a decade ago and when I went back to rewatch the "good episodes", it was fascinating how actively irritating they were. The overwhelming impression I came away with was that the "ironic" misogyny was not actually all that ironic, and it definitely wasn't worth sitting through it just for the mild laugh at Peter breaking his spine for the 40th time. Oh, and Brian acting as a mouthpiece for just stating Seth McFarlane's own views to the audience. That same thing put me off South Park.

It's a shame if that kind of """"humour"""" seeps into The Orville (no idea if it does or not), because comedy sci-fi is a weirdly untapped vein of potential that ought to be explored much more deeply than it has. I can only think of about four comedy sci-fi shows ever made, not including Orville.

 

[ITDUDE]

I challenge those who never watched The Orville to atleast give it a try. It is NOT Family Guy in Space. It’s not a pure comedy either. It’s a scifi comedy-drama. Yes it has a lot of TNG elements in it, it also has current VFX, very decent acting, good stories to tell.
It’s as if it was done by Star Trek fan with a backing of a major studio, it’s because it is. It’s not for everyone, but it’s not bad. It’s not bad at all.

 

[SJGardner]

Family Guy used to make me laugh when I was about 13, but I stopped watching it over a decade ago and when I went back to rewatch the "good episodes", it was fascinating how actively irritating they were. The overwhelming impression I came away with was that the "ironic" misogyny was not actually all that ironic, and it definitely wasn't worth sitting through it just for the mild laugh at Peter breaking his spine for the 40th time.

I feel exactly the same way. Nowadays, if I'm trying to look back at these moments, I'm constantly reminded of that news article I've read about the South Park generation. My generation, those industry-murdering millennials, to make it even sadder. The children of baby boomers, who've grown up in that atmosphere of 'you can do whatever the hell you want', contrasted with that 'be normal, be presentable and don't ashame us' bullshit, who've seen everything go straight to hell in the '90s and the aughts, how all our idealism was all for naught because of our parents' generation ruining the world we're gonna inherit... and then we get the likes of Trey Parker, Matt Stone and Seth MacFarlane, preaching their message of 'the world sucks and you're powerless to change anything about it so you'd better just retreat into your fantasy worlds and don't give a flying fuck about anything.' And this is the generation who is now getting all bitter about everything, especially the world getting more and more politicized every day, aimlessly lashing out at everything from women to liberals, conservatives, the elites, the media, basically everyone, and now they see the most recent issues being infused into the franchises they've used for their escapism in their teens... Star Wars and Star Trek, for example.

Anyway, ending my beer-induced rant (I owed Tilly one)... the reason I'm most soured on MacFarlane is because he, along with South Park's creators, embodies that whole "the future is shit, just like the past" late 2000s cynism I utterly abhore about my generation. The idealism he sees and wants us to see in the sci-fi franchises of his childhood? It's not about fighting for a better world, like the Star Trek of the 60s was. It's about escaping from the inmutable and static general shittiness of the actual crapsack world we are living in. Call me a hippie, but I'm not living in the Mirror Universe or Warhammer 40k like Seth MacFarlane or the Stone/Parker duo does.

 

[Alan Roi]

Agreed, I've also refrained from checking out The Orville despite it allegedly being exactly the kind of thing I'd like (TNG with a comedic edge), entirely due to exposure to McFarlane's other stuff. Family Guy used to make me laugh when I was about 13, but I stopped watching it over a decade ago and when I went back to rewatch the "good episodes", it was fascinating how actively irritating they were. The overwhelming impression I came away with was that the "ironic" misogyny was not actually all that ironic, and it definitely wasn't worth sitting through it just for the mild laugh at Peter breaking his spine for the 40th time. Oh, and Brian acting as a mouthpiece for just stating Seth McFarlane's own views to the audience. That same thing put me off South Park.

It's a shame if that kind of """"humour"""" seeps into The Orville (no idea if it does or not), because comedy sci-fi is a weirdly untapped vein of potential that ought to be explored much more deeply than it has. I can only think of about four comedy sci-fi shows ever made, not including Orville.

Future Man is a brilliant scifi comedy time travel series, most especially for the James Cameron episode. I highly recommend it if you haven't watched it already. The Yahoo series Other Space also has its moments.

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[SolarisOne]

I challenge those who never watched The Orville to atleast give it a try. It is NOT Family Guy in Space. It’s not a pure comedy either. It’s a scifi comedy-drama. Yes it has a lot of TNG elements in it, it also has current VFX, very decent acting, good stories to tell.

Not happening, sorry.

 

[Refuge]

SPOILERS (because a poll can't also be spoiler tagged)
The season 2 finale wrapped up a lot of loose ends. Almost all of them, in fact. And although Discovery is getting a third season and we're gonna explore the distant future of the Trekverse, I'm curious if you'd all have been satisfied if this was the show's conclusion?

Personally, I would be. If it ended now it would kinda remind me of Stargate Universe's finale, which left the crew in suspended animation... forever. I thought that was awesome. Discovery lives on in the future (and we know they're okay as per the seventh signal), the Enterprise goes on in the present and all is good with the universe.

Full disclosure, I've only read the complete transcripts this season.

The jump of 950 years the more I think about it, IS liberating. I would not be satisfied if it ended without glimpsing into that future.

 

[Midquest]

No. It would have left pretty much everyone's arcs unfinished.

Burnham just spent a season experiencing and grappling with her emotions for the first time; as Martin-Green herself says, her character has yet to find real equilibrium. That would have been left hanging.

Culber seems to be sticking to Stamets, but we have no idea what Stamets thinks about this, let alone an ending where he gets a bit of dignity. Or is at least awake.

Saru ends up looking pretty good, actually.

Tilly definitely would have been a major failure if this were the end, as she didn't become a captain or even complete the Command Training Program.

I don't mind not knowing what happened to them, or even ending with Michael's brother, but I really would have been disappointed that these characters hadn't had a shot at crystallizing yet.

Also, Reno still has several more cat lives to spend, so that's clearly the biggest unfinished arc of the season!

 

[Succubint]

I watched the first six or seven Orville episodes. I found them a weird mix of TNG knock off blandness and unpleasant potty humor. Penis, orgasm, bitchy PMS, pee jokes and so on were fairly common. Overt referencing of 20th/21st century pop culture and really simplistic morality tales also featured quite a bit.

If you're not into that kind of (imo) very juvenile male-centric bro humor, I doubt the formulaic sci fi plots and relationship drama will save it for you.

That said, I did like some of the ideas in terms of world-building and occasionally there's a nice twist to the story before the end. I also do like several of the actors on the show. Sorry, Seth, not you, though.

It just felt so...derivative and not that funny. But that's simply because it's not to my taste. Others clearly find it fun and worth watching. I'm glad they have it.

I'll take DSC over it, any day. So I voted no, I would not be satisfied. I want more stories with this amazing crew and their crazy spore ship!

 

[Kelso]

No, I'm hopeful that they can produce a good show, once they're finally clear of the BTS turmoil.

Imagine what we'd have lost if TNG had been canceled after its first two seasons- which were every bit as lousy as Discovery's.

 

[Midquest]

I challenge those who never watched The Orville to atleast give it a try. It is NOT Family Guy in Space. It’s not a pure comedy either. It’s a scifi comedy-drama. Yes it has a lot of TNG elements in it, it also has current VFX, very decent acting, good stories to tell.

I watched the first six or seven Orville episodes. I found them a weird mix of TNG knock off blandness and unpleasant potty humor.

I too tried The Orville. I watched a few episodes from season one and two. I couldn't help feeling that it was bland, with unpleasant and juvenile bro-y humor. The stories also felt reductively simple and familiar, with questionable acting. That's too bad, as I'm open to comedy-dramas (The Good Place is phenomenal). Ultimately, The Orville didn't so much not hold my interest as repel me with its crudeness. In comparison, Discovery has given us some incredibly nuanced character studies and (with the season two epilogue) offered a kind of thesis statement about its morality and perception of humanity. That to me is much more interesting.

That said, I do see The Orville's appeal in that it hits some of the same buttons as earlier Trek. I'm glad that people are enjoying it.

Back to topic, perhaps the most exciting thing about season three of Discovery is that (I hope) it will have a stable, er, stable of talent behind the scenes, and freed from Trek as we know it it can be anything. I just hope they do something brave.

 

[Leathco]

Honestly, yea. It's a little heavy on Burnham-Hero stuff, but the ending effectively resets canon (no spore drive, Spock can never speak of his step-sister) and we got an awesome updated Enterprise, and a fun season 1 with Lorca and the Mirror Universe. If this were the end, it was a fun ride. But still looking forward to season 3!

 

[SJGardner]

I'll take DSC over it, any day. So I voted no, I would not be satisfied. I want more stories with this amazing crew and their crazy spore ship!

I'd rather have a sci-fi series that admits that yes, this is the world we live in, and these are the hands we're given, but there are good and inspiring people in it who use them and start trying to make it a place worth living in/fighting for (depending on the verse ), than something filtered through a cynical nostalgia for half-remembered Berman-era Trek along the lines of "the world's unsalvageable so we might as well conjure up a perfect one to distract ourselves."

 

[Refuge]

I too tried The Orville. I watched a few episodes from season one and two. I couldn't help feeling that it was bland, with unpleasant and juvenile bro-y humor. The stories also felt reductively simple and familiar, with questionable acting. That's too bad, as I'm open to comedy-dramas (The Good Place is phenomenal). Ultimately, The Orville didn't so much not hold my interest as repel me with its crudeness. In comparison, Discovery has given us some incredibly nuanced character studies and (with the season two epilogue) offered a kind of thesis statement about its morality and perception of humanity. That to me is much more interesting.

That said, I do see The Orville's appeal in that it hits some of the same buttons as earlier Trek. I'm glad that people are enjoying it.

Back to topic, perhaps the most exciting thing about season three of Discovery is that (I hope) it will have a stable, er, stable of talent behind the scenes, and freed from Trek as we know it it can be anything. I just hope they do something brave.

Since the Orville was brought up... it's been a tad boring this year. It's no longer the rebellious Trek wannabe. The stories have been dreary. Like tedious soap opera sound bites. Tons of relationship stuff which is all very well and good but what a waste of the setting. I did like a recent episode where Bortus and Klyden were smoking, that was a nice little snapshot of life. I remember my Mother giving up cigarettes and hiding them I don't get how people say The Orville is like The Next Generation. It's a totally different beast, in my opinion.

Back on topic too... Mostly uncharted territory sounds brave to me.

 

[Midquest]

Back on topic too... Mostly uncharted territory sounds brave to me.

Interesting to hear about The Orville. I haven't seen enough to get a sense of the whole, I guess.

In terms of Season Three, I guess what seems like the not brave choice would be to have the crew arrive in a universe in which the Federation no longer exists and the Disco crew need to rebuild the Federation. That way, you don't have to contend with questions like, "What does technology look like 930 years farther in the future?" or "How are these stories fundamentally different from the stories we could tell in the TOS era?" I would much, much rather see them arrive in a future where the Federation is thriving, even if it has some kind of internal problems (and why shouldn't it? From TOS's Federation citizens who have gone crazy to TNG/DS9's crazy admirals and the Marquis, there's plenty of reason to think that there will still be issues). I'd love a story where we see the crew reintegrate into a society that might in some ways seem like magic to them, along with all the issues that might bring. There can be a big problem, big bad, or what have you, but to me the brave choice would be to engage with the idea that the world hasn't descended into utter chaos. I'd just like to see them not do the obvious story.

 

[Starflight]

If the unexplored areas of the Alpha Quadrant were the "frontier" in the 2250s and 2260s, you have to wonder what the Federation would consider to be the new frontier in the far future. Maybe even something as far away as the Andromeda galaxy?

I'd also love to see a future Federation that's stronger than ever, and which has Romulans, Klingons and Cardassians as valuable members. There's no better way to embrace the inherent optimism of the franchise than showing that one day, all the fighting and tension and political machinations between the major Alpha and Beta quadrant races will be a distant memory.

 

[Delta Vega]

It wouldn't be satisfying if Discovery ended at this juncture
The show deserves the chance now to make some leeway of its own, instead of being tied up in the mess of aligning timelines or canon, or whatever the fuck.
Discovery and her crew have stories waiting to be told, there is potential for some good Trek in Season 3

 

[SJGardner]

I'd like to get an outside perspective on the future Federation, basically the perspective of those living on that frontier, with Discovery hearing lots of conflicting rumors about something enroaching the region they've found themselves in, some of them claiming them to be benign, some benevolent, others antagonistic and dangerous, something like all the wild stories medieval sailors brought back about dog-headed and one-legged people living in Cathay, only for it turning out to have been the future Federation all along. They don't even have to be villains, they can truly be as benevolent and peaceful explorers as the Federation can be, with all the species we got used to being sworn enemies serving together as allies and friends in Starfleet.